Discussion:
God-damn Hydras! [NPP]
(too old to reply)
pete mack
2006-01-12 02:29:53 UTC
Permalink
I'm trying to win in < 1 M moves.

I've tried twice now to power-dive in NPP, as a warrior. Both times I
got Detection fairly early, thanks to NPP chests dropped in Power
Dragon pits. The second game, I didn't get RBlind or RConf. But that
wasn't the problem.

The real problem is that those cursed hydras are insanely fast and
dangerous, and hard to detect. I'd forgotten just how nasty they are.

I'd have had a lot less trouble if the Cap of ESP had showed up just a
little later in the Armory :(

I had an almost sufficient kit, but at the end I couldn't live without:

* ESP or good detection. (Occasional use of Rod of Detection does not
suffice.)
* Magic Mapping. (I had a rod but it got destroyed. After killing Eol
I should have recalled immediately to swap light sources)

RConf would have been nice, as would RBlind, especially without ESP.
Doing without was dangerous and expensive, but not ultimately fatal.

Dump is from soon prior to death, slightly edited to show results of
Eol battle. It's a laughable kit for 3200'. (My first attempt had
better equipment, but didn't get nearly as deep.)


[NPPAngband 0.4.1 Character Dump]

Name Karen Hughes Self RB CB EB Best
Sex Female Age 117 STR: 18/94 +1 +5 +0 18/154
Race High-Elf Height 82 INT: 16 +3 -2 +0 17
Class Warrior Weight 162 WIS: 18 -1 -2 +0 15
Title Commando Status 44 DEX: 18/82 +3 +2 +0 18/132
HP 625/625 CON: 18/90 +1 +2 +4 18/160
SP 0/0 Level 33 CHR: 18/14 +5 -1 +2 18/74

GameTurn 414000 Armor [27,+65] Saving Throw Superb
Cur Exp 504267 Fight (+30,+25) Stealth Good
Max Exp 504267 Melee (+35,+33) Fighting Legendary
Adv Exp 15733 Shoot (+41,+18) Shooting Legendary
MaxDepth 3250 ft Blows 6/turn Disarming Superb
Gold 134329 Shots 1/turn Magic Device Superb
Burden 142 lbs Speed Normal Perception Poor
% Burden 47% Infra 70 ft Searching Poor

You are the only child of a Noldorin Ranger. You have light
grey eyes, wavy blond hair, and a fair complexion.

[Character Equipment Stat Modifiers, Sustains and Flags]

(+/-)
|}=="~[()]]] |}=="~[()]]]
abcdefghijkl@ abcdefghijkl@
Str: ............. Str: .............
Int: ............. Int: .............
Wis: ............. Wis: .............
Dex: ............. Dex: .............
Con: ..4.......... Con: .............
Chr: 2............ Chr: .............
abcdefghijkl@ abcdefghijkl@
Acid:+.......+.... Blind:.............
Elec:+............ Confu:.............
Fire:+............ Sound:.............
Cold:+............ Shard:.......+.....
Pois:......+...... Nexus:.............
Fear:............+ Nethr:.............
Lite:............+ Chaos:.............
Dark:............. Disen:.............
abcdefghijkl@ abcdefghijkl@
S.Dig:............. Stea.:.............
Feath:............. Sear.:.............
PLite:............. Infra:.............
Regen:....+........ Aggr.:.............
Telep:............. Speed:.............
Invis:............+ Blows:+............
FrAct:...........+. Shots:.............
HLife:............. Might:.............
abcdefghijkl@ abcdefghijkl@
|}=="~[()]]] |}=="~[()]]]

[Character Equipment]

a) The Sabre 'Thloth' (1d7) (+18,+18) (+2)
It increases your charisma by 2. It slays orcs, trolls,
demons, and all evil creatures, and it is especially deadly
against undead. It provides resistance to acid, lightning,
fire, and cold. It cannot be harmed by the elements. It
gives you 6 attacks per turn.
b) a Heavy Crossbow of Power (x4) (+12,+19) {Khim}
c) a Ring of Constitution (+4)
d) a Ring of Slaying (+12,+13)
e) an Amulet of Regeneration
It speeds your regeneration.
f) The Phial of Galadriel
It lights the dungeon around you. It cannot be harmed by the
elements. It might have hidden powers.
g) Dragon Scale Mail (Green) (-1) [5,+15] {!!}
It provides resistance to poison. It activates for poison
resistance (10+d10 turns) and breathe poison gas (100) every
100+d100 turns. It cannot be harmed by the elements.
h) a Cloak of Protection [1,+17]
It provides resistance to shards. It cannot be harmed by the
elements.
i) a Small Leather Shield of Resist Elements [2,+11]
It provides resistance to acid. It cannot be harmed by acid.
j) a Steel Helm [6,+4]
k) a Set of Leather Gloves of Slaying (+3,+3) [1,+2]
l) a Pair of Hard Leather Boots of Free Action [3,+5]
It grants you immunity to paralysis.


[Character Inventory]

a) 5 Potions of Cure Critical Wounds {10% off}
b) 4 Potions of Healing {!*, 50% off}
c) 20 Scroll of Phase Door
d) 2 Scrolls of Teleport Level {!*}
e) 4 Scrolls of *Destruction* {!*}
f) a Rod of Perception {!!@z1}
It cannot be harmed by electricity.
g) 2 Rods of Recall {!!,!*}
It cannot be harmed by electricity.
h) a Rod of Detection {!!@z7}
It cannot be harmed by electricity.
i) 2 Rods of Stone to Mud
j) 2 Rods of Teleport Other {!!,!*}
k) 2 Rods of Light {!!@z5}
l) 8 Wands of Teleport Other (58 charges) {!*}
m) 2 Staffs of Teleportation (10 charges) {!*}
n) 3 Staffs of Speed (10 charges) {!*}
o) 1 Staff of Detect Evil (14 charges) {@u2}
[ p) The Star of Elendil ]
q) 13 Bolts of Venom (1d5) (+6,+6)
It is branded with poison.
r) 15 Bolts of Flame (1d5) (+6,+6)
It is branded with fire. It cannot be harmed by fire.
s) 23 Bolts of Slay Dragon (1d5) (+13, +15)

[Home Inventory]

a) 18 Potions of Speed {!*, 25% off}
b) a Scroll of Teleportation {!*}
c) a Scroll of Word of Recall {!*, 10% off}
d) 52 Scrolls of Identify {@r1}
e) 2 Scrolls of *Identify* {!*}
f) 2 Scrolls of Banishment {!*}
g) a Rod of Door/Stair Location {!!@z4}
h) 3 Rods of Illumination {@z3}
(I should have recalled immediately to swap light sources.)

i) 4 Staffs of *Destruction* (12 charges) {!*}
j) a Ring of Resist Poison
It provides resistance to poison.
k) an Amulet of Charisma (+5)
It increases your charisma by 5. It sustains your charisma.
(In NPP, money-grubbing is more important than normal.)

l) Chain Mail of Resistance (-2) [14,+17]
It provides resistance to acid, lightning, fire, and cold.
It cannot be harmed by the elements.
m) The Large Leather Shield of the Haradrim [4,+15] (+2)
It increases your strength and constitution by 2. It cannot
be harmed by the elements. It might have hidden powers.
n) The Set of Leather Gloves 'Cammithrim' [1,+10]
It cannot be harmed by the elements. It might have hidden
powers.
o) a Set of Leather Gloves of Agility [1,+6] (+1)
It increases your dexterity by 1.
p) a Pair of Hard Leather Boots of Stealth [3,+4] (+2)
It increases your stealth by 2.
q) a Scimitar of Extra Attacks (2d5) (+5,+8) (+2)
It increases your attack speed by 2. It gives you 8 attacks
per turn.
r) a Rapier of Westernesse (1d6) (+14,+14) (+1)
It increases your strength, dexterity, and constitution by 1.
It slays orcs, trolls, and giants. It grants you immunity to
paralysis and the ability to see invisible things. It gives
you 6 attacks per turn.
s) a Lucerne Hammer of the Elements (3d5) (+4,+10)
It is branded with acid. It provides resistance to acid. It
cannot be harmed by acid. It gives you 6 attacks per turn.

Karen Hughes the High-Elf Warrior
Began the quest to kill Morgoth on 01/08/2006 at 09:41 PM
============================================================
CHAR.
| TURN | DEPTH |LEVEL| EVENT
============================================================
| 3036| Town | 1 | Killed Lotho Pimple
| 7191| 150 | 3 | Killed Wolf, Farmer Maggot's dog
| 10624| 400 | 5 | Reached level 5
| 31180| 600 | 10 | Reached level 10
| 31890| 600 | 11 | Killed Grishnakh, the Hill Orc
| 38545| 700 | 13 | Killed Wormtongue, Agent of Saruman
| 44972| 700 | 13 | Found The Set of Leather Gloves 'Cammithrim'
| 54654| 700 | 14 | Killed Ufthak of Cirith Ungol
| 55899| 700 | 15 | Reached level 15
| 60879| 850 | 15 | Killed Nar, the Dwarf
| 83587| 1150 | 18 | Killed Ulfast, Son of Ulfang
| 94251| 1450 | 20 | Reached level 20
| 134690| 1800 | 24 | Found The Well-balanced Dagger 'Narthanc'
| 141805| 1800 | 24 | Killed Khim, Son of Mim
| 142233| 1800 | 25 | Reached level 25
| 163410| 1800 | 26 | Killed The Queen Ant
| 165887| 1800 | 27 | Killed Angamaite of Umbar
| 180537| 1800 | 28 | Found The Phial of Galadriel
| 197490| Town | 29 | Left the level without entering the Greater
vault
| continued... | | ("I in the Storm")
[ Ran out of food while digging.]
| 210700| Town | 29 | Left the level without entering the Greater
vault
| continued... | | ("large")
[ Left the level before detecting it.]
| 225523| 2000 | 30 | Reached level 30
| 240524| 2000 | 30 | Found The Set of Gauntlets 'Paurnimmen'
| 240999| 2000 | 30 | Killed Ibun, Son of Mim
| 242364| 2000 | 30 | Killed Beorn, the Shape-Changer
| 247319| Town | 30 | Resistance armor; exchange for White DSM
| 254090| 2100 | 30 | Killed Maglor, Son of Feanor
| 297944| 2250 | 31 | Killed Kavlax the Many-Headed
| 351010| 2550 | 32 | Killed Lorgan, Chief of the Easterlings
| 351042| 2550 | 32 | Killed Shagrat, the Orc Captain
| 354313| 2650 | 32 | Killed Gorbag, the Orc Captain
| 363695| 2650 | 32 | Found The Large Leather Shield of the
Haradrim
| 371018| 2700 | 33 | Killed Rogrog the Black Troll
| 384171| 2850 | 33 | Killed Mughash the Kobold Lord
| 390367| 2850 | 33 | Found The Sabre 'Thloth'
[ approx:]
| 410000| 3100 | 33 | Killed Eol, the Dark Elf
| 410000| 3100 | 33 | Found the Star of Elendil
============================================================
[ 414000 Killed by a 13-Headed Hydra]
============================================================
Anssi Ramela
2006-01-12 15:39:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by pete mack
I'm trying to win in < 1 M moves.
Hydras are the reason why I never powerdive in NPP
anymore. Hydras are also the reason why I never
take pit or level quests after dlvl 20.

I find it funny how I used to hate Hounds. Nowadays
I love them, mostly because they are not Hydras. :-P

Anssi Ramela
Eddie Grove
2006-01-12 17:20:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anssi Ramela
Post by pete mack
I'm trying to win in < 1 M moves.
Hydras are the reason why I never powerdive in NPP
anymore. Hydras are also the reason why I never
take pit or level quests after dlvl 20.
I never take any quests other than the (a) quests.
Hydra pits are particularly annoying with "always small levels".

I've got solutions for you!

staff of destruction
scroll of destruction
scroll of teleport level
Post by Anssi Ramela
I find it funny how I used to hate Hounds. Nowadays
I love them, mostly because they are not Hydras. :-P
Anssi Ramela
How right you are. :)


Eddie
Twisted
2006-01-12 17:46:36 UTC
Permalink
Hrm...who is Karen Hughes named after? :)
pete mack
2006-01-12 18:18:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Twisted
Hrm...who is Karen Hughes named after? :)
Gimme a g... g! Gimme an o... o! Gimme another o..

I like to name crash-diving characters so I won't miss them if (when)
they get whacked.
Twisted
2006-01-12 19:36:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by pete mack
Gimme a g... g!
So ... cheerleader then?
pete mack
2006-01-12 18:01:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eddie Grove
I never take any quests other than the (a) quests.
Hydra pits are particularly annoying with "always small levels".
My tactics aren't good enough for even (a) quests with "always small
levels" turned on, and the quests are tedious with full-sized levels.
But a few quest rewards might have helped a lot in this game. And I'm
not sure whether quests pay off as big as simply diving fast.

[ We all hate hydras]
Post by Eddie Grove
I've got solutions for you!
staff of destruction
scroll of destruction
scroll of teleport level
Yes. In previous game, I fled level if I detected some big confuser
(Saruman), or for Hydra pits. In future games, I will flee level if I
see even a single bad Hydra anywhere on the level. Trouble is, it's
tough to count on getting Detection or ESP. No longer is Detect Evil +
RPois sufficient, the way it is in V.
Eddie Grove
2006-01-12 18:30:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by pete mack
Post by Eddie Grove
I never take any quests other than the (a) quests.
Hydra pits are particularly annoying with "always small levels".
My tactics aren't good enough for even (a) quests with "always small
levels" turned on, and the quests are tedious with full-sized levels.
But a few quest rewards might have helped a lot in this game. And I'm
not sure whether quests pay off as big as simply diving fast.
I am still not Cliff-fast, but I am trying. For now, I find that the
quests help to speed the game. They force me to kill more monsters
than I would, and I tend to forget to do that. Rewards are nice too.
Here's a dump from my current game.

I forgot about the damned water bolts that confuse. I should have
gone to the guild and canceled the quest rather than ever trying to
face Gorlim. That was my last quest.

In addition to my other self-imposed restrictions, I now refuse to buy
potions of restore life levels, and I squelch them as well, so I can
keep the high ground when I tell people not to worry about life-draining.


[NPPAngband 0.4.1 Character Dump]

Name Brauglith Self RB CB EB Best
Sex Female Age 42 STR: 18/94 +2 +5 +0 18/164
Race Dwarf Height 46 INT: 18 -3 -2 +3 16
Class Warrior Weight 119 WIS: 18/36 +2 -2 +0 18/36
Title Champion Status 46 DEX: 18/92 -2 +2 +4 18/132
HP 633/633 CON: 18/42 +2 +2 +3 18/112
SP 0/0 Level 37 CHR: 18 -3 -1 +5 18/10

GameTurn 257516 Armor [29,+118] Saving Throw Superb
Cur Exp 679381 Fight (+39,+35) Stealth Excellent
Max Exp 725928 Melee (+52,+48) Fighting Legendary
Adv Exp 840000 Shoot (+53,+13) Shooting Legendary
MaxDepth 3100 ft Blows 6/turn Disarming Superb
Gold 68933 Shots 2/turn Magic Device Superb
Burden 148 lbs Speed +2 Perception Good
% Burden 49% Infra 180 ft Searching Very Good

You are the only child of a Dwarven Miner. You are a well liked
child. You have dark brown eyes, straight black hair, a one
foot beard, and a dark complexion.



[Character Equipment Stat Modifiers, Sustains and Flags]

(+/-) + ++
|}=="~[()]]] |}=="~[()]]]
abcdefghijkl@ abcdefghijkl@
Str: ............. Str: .............
Int: .........3... Int: .......s.s...
Wis: ............. Wis: .......s.....
Dex: ..........4.. Dex: .......s.....
Con: .........3... Con: .........s...
Chr: 2........3... Chr: .............
abcdefghijkl@ abcdefghijkl@
Acid:+.......+.... Blind:............+
Elec:........+.... Confu:.............
Fire:.......++.... Sound:.............
Cold:.......+++... Shard:.............
Pois:......+.+.... Nexus:.........+...
Fear:............+ Nethr:.............
Lite:............. Chaos:.............
Dark:............. Disen:.............
abcdefghijkl@ abcdefghijkl@
S.Dig:.........+... Stea.:+.......++...
Feath:..........++. Sear.:..........+..
PLite:+......+++... Infra:....+....+...
Regen:............. Aggr.:.............
Telep:.........+... Speed:........+....
Invis:........+.... Blows:.............
FrAct:+.........+.. Shots:.+...........
HLife:+............ Might:.............
abcdefghijkl@ abcdefghijkl@
|}=="~[()]]] |}=="~[()]]]

[Character Equipment]

a) The Katana 'Megos' (6d4) (+13,+13) (+2)
It increases your charisma by 2. It increases your stealth
by 2. It slays animals, demons, and undead. It is branded
with acid. It provides resistance to acid and life draining.
It lights the dungeon around you. It grants you immunity to
paralysis. It cannot be harmed by the elements. It gives
you 6 attacks per turn.
b) a Long Bow of Extra Shots (x3) (+14,+13) (+1)
It increases your shooting speed by 1.
c) a Ring of Slaying (+9,+9)
d) a Ring of Slaying (+9,+11)
e) an Amulet of Infravision (+3)
It increases your infravision by 3.
f) The Phial 'Aialianol'
It lights the dungeon around you. It activates for
illumination every 10+d10 turns. It cannot be harmed by the
elements.
g) Medium Dragon Scale Mail (Green) (-2) [12,+22]
It provides resistance to poison. It activates for poison
resistance (10+d10 turns) and breathe poison gas (200) every
200+d200 turns. It cannot be harmed by the elements.
h) The Cloak of Auriond [1,+17]
It provides resistance to fire and cold. It sustains your
intelligence, wisdom, and dexterity. It lights the dungeon
around you. It cannot be harmed by the elements.
i) The Large Leather Shield of Drossil [4,+31] (+2)
It increases your stealth and speed by 2. It provides
resistance to acid, lightning, fire, cold, and poison. It
lights the dungeon around you. It grants you the ability to
see invisible things. It cannot be harmed by the elements.
j) The Iron Helm 'Suldi' [5,+25] (+3)
It increases your intelligence, constitution, and charisma by
3. It increases your stealth and infravision by 3. It
provides resistance to cold and nexus. It sustains your
intelligence and constitution. It slows your metabolism and
lights the dungeon around you. It grants you the power of
telepathy. It cannot be harmed by the elements.
k) a Set of Leather Gloves of Thievery (+3,+3) [1,+7] (+4)
It increases your dexterity by 4. It increases your
searching by 4. It makes you fall like a feather. It grants
you immunity to paralysis.
l) a Pair of Metal Shod Boots of Slow Descent [6,+7]
It makes you fall like a feather.


[Character Inventory]

a) 22 Potions of Heroism
b) 20 Potions of Cure Critical Wounds
c) a Potion of Enlightenment
d) 4 Scrolls of Teleport Level {!*}
e) 34 Scrolls of Identify {@r1}
f) a Scroll of *Identify*
g) 2 Rods of Trap Location {@z1 !!}
h) 3 Rods of Door/Stair Location {@z2 !!}
i) a Rod of Perception {!!}
It cannot be harmed by electricity.
j) 2 Rods of Recall {!*}
It cannot be harmed by electricity.
k) 4 Rods of Stone to Mud
l) a Rod of Teleport Other
m) a Rod of Disarming
n) 2 Wands of Teleport Other (7 charges)
o) 2 Staffs of Teleportation (7 charges) {!*}
p) 2 Staffs of Speed (3 charges) {!*}
q) a Staff of *Destruction* (3 charges) {!*}
r) 2 Staffs of Mass Identify (3 charges) {@u2}
s) 17 Arrows of Venom (1d4) (+9,+8)
It is branded with poison.
t) 14 Arrows of Flame (2d5) (+5,+3)
It is branded with fire. It cannot be harmed by fire.

[Home Inventory Stat Modifiers, Sustains and Flags]

(+/-) ++
!!!!!?????-----=]]/{{{{{ !!!!!?????-----=]]/{{{{{
abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwx abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwx
Str: ........................ Str: ........................
Int: ........................ Int: ................ss......
Wis: ........................ Wis: ................s.......
Dex: ................3....... Dex: .................s......
Con: ...............5........ Con: ...............ss.......
Chr: ........................ Chr: ........................
abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwx abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwx
Acid: ................+....... Blind: ................+.......
Elec: ........................ Confu: ........................
Fire: ........................ Sound: ........................
Cold: .................+...... Shard: ........................
Pois: ........................ Nexus: ........................
Fear: ........................ Nethr: ........................
Lite: ........................ Chaos: ........................
Dark: ........................ Disen: ........................
abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwx abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwx
S.Dig: ........................ Stea.: ................+.......
Feath: ........................ Sear.: ................+.......
PLite: ................+....... Infra: ........................
Regen: ........................ Aggr.: ..................+.....
Telep: ........................ Speed: ........................
Invis: ........................ Blows: ..................+.....
FrAct: ................+....... Shots: ........................
HLife: ........................ Might: ........................
abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwx abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwx
!!!!!?????-----=]]/{{{{{ !!!!!?????-----=]]/{{{{{

[Home Inventory]

a) 9 Potions of Speed
b) 4 Potions of Resist Heat
c) 16 Potions of Resist Cold
It cannot be harmed by cold.
d) 8 Potions of Healing
e) 3 Potions of Resist Electricity
f) 26 Scrolls of Teleport Level {!*}
g) 12 Scrolls of *Identify*
h) 7 Scrolls of Enchant Weapon To-Dam
i) a Scroll of *Destruction* {!*}
j) 2 Scrolls of Banishment
k) 3 Rods of Trap Location {@z1 !!}
l) 2 Rods of Recall {!*}
It cannot be harmed by electricity.
m) a Rod of Illumination
n) a Rod of Magic Mapping
o) 5 Rods of Disarming
p) a Ring of Constitution (+5)
It increases your constitution by 5. It sustains your
constitution.
q) The Iron Helm 'Nildindi' [5,+17] (+3)
It increases your dexterity by 3. It increases your stealth
and searching by 3. It provides resistance to acid and
blindness. It sustains your intelligence, wisdom, and
constitution. It lights the dungeon around you. It grants
you immunity to paralysis. It activates for drain life (120)
every 40 turns. It cannot be harmed by the elements.
r) The Set of Leather Gloves 'Gorieldir' (+7,+7) [1,+24]
It provides resistance to cold. It sustains your
intelligence and dexterity. It cannot be harmed by the
elements.
s) a Halberd of Fury (3d5) (+13,+19) (+2)
It increases your attack speed by 2. It aggravates creatures
around you. It cannot be harmed by acid or fire. It gives
you 8 attacks per turn.
t) 7 Bolts of Lightning (1d5) (+17,+10)
It is branded with electricity. It cannot be harmed by
electricity.
u) 9 Arrows of Acid (1d4) (+9,+9)
It is branded with acid. It cannot be harmed by acid.
v) 7 Arrows of Venom (1d4) (+0,+0)
It is branded with poison.
w) 28 Rounded Pebbles of Slay Evil (1d2) (+12,+16)
It slays all evil creatures.
x) 19 Iron Shots of Acid (1d4) (+5,+5)
It is branded with acid. It cannot be harmed by acid.

Brauglith the Dwarf Warrior
Began the quest to kill Morgoth on 01/08/2006 at 11:23 PM
============================================================
CHAR.
| TURN | DEPTH |LEVEL| EVENT
============================================================
| 2191| 50 | 5 | Reached level 5
| 6871| 50 | 7 | Quest: Killed 18 Large grey snakes
| 12371| 150 | 10 | Reached level 10
| 15861| 150 | 12 | Killed Wolf, Farmer Maggot's dog
| 16766| 150 | 12 | Quest: Killed 20 Giant salamanders
| 31922| 250 | 15 | Reached level 15
| 31922| 250 | 15 | Quest: Killed 12 Driders
| 41880| 350 | 16 | Killed Grip, Farmer Maggot's dog
| 43414| 350 | 17 | Quest: Destroyed 11 Fire spirits
| 44251| 350 | 17 | Killed Mughash the Kobold Lord
| 47862| 350 | 17 | Killed Bullroarer the Hobbit
| 49949| 350 | 17 | Killed Fang, Farmer Maggot's dog
| 58117| 450 | 18 | Quest: Destroyed 9 Energy vortices
| 58587| Quest | 18 | Reward: The Lead-Filled Mace 'Thalinas'
| 66383| 600 | 19 | Killed Smeagol
| 70886| 600 | 19 | Quest: Killed 17 Hippogriffs
| 72933| Town | 19 | Killed Lotho Pimple
| 74927| 600 | 19 | Killed Brodda, the Easterling
| 76942| 600 | 20 | Reached level 20
| 80207| 750 | 20 | Killed Grishnakh, the Hill Orc
| 83842| 750 | 21 | Quest: Killed Angamaite of Umbar
| 85157| Quest | 21 | Reward: The Phial 'Aialianol'
| 93455| 900 | 19 | Quest: Destroyed 10 Banshees
| 101921| 1000 | 17 | Quest: Destroyed 13 Banshees
| 102011| 1000 | 17 | Killed Lagduf, the Snaga
| 102726| Quest | 17 | Reward: The Cloak of Auriond
| 104902| 950 | 17 | Killed Boldor, King of the Yeeks
| 114218| 1100 | 22 | Killed Wormtongue, Agent of Saruman
| 115628| 1100 | 23 | Quest: Killed 14 Sabre-tooth tigers
| 118794| Quest | 23 | Reward: The Set of Leather Gloves 'Gorieldir'
| 126076| 1200 | 25 | Reached level 25
| 129905| 1250 | 25 | Quest: Killed 13 Spirit nagas
| 131742| Quest | 25 | Reward: The Large Leather Shield of Drossil
| 139616| 1400 | 26 | Quest: Killed 14 Frost giants
| 145987| 1500 | 27 | Quest: Destroyed 13 Spectres
| 152171| 1600 | 28 | Killed Khim, Son of Mim
| 152930| 1600 | 28 | Quest: Killed 10 Mature red dragons
| 154668| Quest | 28 | Reward: The Iron Helm 'Nildindi'
| 163317| 1700 | 29 | Killed Mim, Betrayer of Turin
| 165842| 1700 | 29 | Quest: Failed to kill Gorlim, Betrayer of Barahir
| 179454| 2000 | 30 | Reached level 30
| 191815| 2250 | 31 | Killed Azog, King of the Uruk-Hai
| 196992| 2200 | 31 | Destroyed Draebor, the Imp
| 201268| 2250 | 31 | Found The Iron Helm 'Suldi'
| 219532| 2500 | 32 | Destroyed Adunaphel the Quiet
| 239036| 2650 | 33 | Killed Lorgan, Chief of the Easterlings
| 246889| 2800 | 34 | Killed Lokkak, the Ogre Chieftain
| 248732| 2850 | 35 | Reached level 35
| 256057| 3000 | 37 | Found The Katana 'Megos'
============================================================


[Options]

GAME PLAY OPTIONS:

Auto-haggle in stores : yes (auto_haggle)
Auto-scum for good levels : no (auto_scum)
Allow the generation of themed levels : yes (allow_themed_levels)
Expand the power of the look command : yes (expand_look)
Expand the power of the list commands : yes (expand_list)
Map remembers all perma-lit grids : yes (view_perma_grids)
Map remembers all torch-lit grids : yes (view_torch_grids)
Generate dungeons with aligned rooms : no (dungeon_align)
Generate dungeons with connected stairs : no (dungeon_stair)
Monsters exploit players weaknesses : no (smart_cheat)

BIRTH OPTIONS:

Adult: Allow purchase of stats using points : yes (adult_point_based)
Adult: Allow specification of minimal stats : no (adult_auto_roller)
Adult: Maximize effect of race/class bonuses : yes (adult_maximize)
Adult: Preserve artifacts when leaving level : yes (adult_preserve)
Adult: Restrict the use of stairs/recall : no (adult_ironman)
Adult: Restrict the use of stores/home : no (adult_no_stores)
Adult: Restrict creation of artifacts : no (adult_no_artifacts)
Adult: Randomize some of the artifacts (beta): yes (adult_rand_artifacts)
Adult: Never stack objects on the floor : no (adult_no_stacking)
Adult: Have notes to written to a file : yes (adult_take_notes)
Adult: All levels generated small : yes (adult_force_small_lev)
Adult: Retain squelch settings : no (adult_retain_squelch)
Adult: Disable quests : no (adult_no_quests)
Adult: Disable player ghosts : yes (adult_no_player ghosts)
Adult: Disable store services : no (adult_no_store_services)
Adult: Disable extra artifacts : no (adult_no_xtra_artifacts)

CHEAT OPTIONS:

Score: Peek into object creation : no (score_peek)
Score: Peek into monster creation : no (score_hear)
Score: Peek into dungeon creation : no (score_room)
Score: Peek into something else : no (score_xtra)
Score: Know complete monster info : no (score_know)
Score: Allow player to avoid death : no (score_live)
pete mack
2006-01-13 01:19:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eddie Grove
I am still not Cliff-fast, but I am trying. For now, I find that the
quests help to speed the game. They force me to kill more monsters
than I would, and I tend to forget to do that. Rewards are nice too.
Here's a dump from my current game.
In addition to my other self-imposed restrictions, I now refuse to buy
potions of restore life levels, and I squelch them as well, so I can
keep the high ground when I tell people not to worry about life-draining.
Other than the unfortunate lack of RConf, that's a nice kit. I'd
probably still be alive if I'd had that helmet.

With limited weapon selection, and a critical need for CON, I ended up
basically using a Defender weapon and playing like a weak Ranger. I
was pinning all my plans on Wyrms and Dragon pits, along with weak
uniques.

Gameplay questions:
- Do randarts make it easier or harder?
- How do you get by without any !Healing?
- Is the rod of disarming really worth carrying? (I use STM and unlock
chests in a nook.)
- Why are you carrying Door location instead of magic mapping?
- How do you get by without Phase Door? I use a lot of archery in NPP.

NPP questions:
- Why is light DSM activation time so much shorter than medium DSM, at
least for elemental DSM where the activation actually counts for a lot?
- Why do all my staves of Mass Identify have 0 charges? I'd love to
carry them. I suspect my turncount would go down a lot if I didn't use
pseudo-ID for dragon pits.

I will try again, and hope for ESP instead of Detection, this time. I
used to hate Drolems, but now I love them, simply because they are not
Hydras.
Eddie Grove
2006-01-13 02:36:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by pete mack
Post by Eddie Grove
I am still not Cliff-fast, but I am trying. For now, I find that the
quests help to speed the game. They force me to kill more monsters
than I would, and I tend to forget to do that. Rewards are nice too.
Here's a dump from my current game.
In addition to my other self-imposed restrictions, I now refuse to buy
potions of restore life levels, and I squelch them as well, so I can
keep the high ground when I tell people not to worry about life-draining.
Other than the unfortunate lack of RConf, that's a nice kit. I'd
probably still be alive if I'd had that helmet.
It will surely do me in.
Post by pete mack
- Do randarts make it easier or harder?
It varies. Sometimes much easier, sometimes much harder. It is
pretty random.
Post by pete mack
- How do you get by without any !Healing?
I don't fight anything I cannot kill without using !healing, until the
*really* deep uniques. I primarily use !CCW for the curing effects of
cuts/poison/stun/confusion, only rarely for the hitpoints.
Post by pete mack
- Is the rod of disarming really worth carrying? (I use STM and unlock
chests in a nook.)
I don't really know. I hate the idea of losing an artifact because I
blew up a chest. OK - I do know - it's not worth the slot.
OTOH, it can be easy to build up a bunch at home. Take one down each
trip and throw it away before returning.
Post by pete mack
- Why are you carrying Door location instead of magic mapping?
I was having trouble activating it. Also, I had multiple door
location and only one mapping.
Post by pete mack
- How do you get by without Phase Door? I use a lot of archery in NPP.
After a certain point, I find phasing to be too dangerous. I don't
really know why, as it makes no sense, but I have gotten myself into
trouble too often after ?phase to ignore it any more. Teleport other,
I guess. I haven't done that so much either, just the one rod and
two wands [never recharged the wands] all game.

The real answer is to use stealth and not fight. After the midgame, I
only use archery against monsters that hit to confuse, or ones that
are running away. That's not a restriction, it is just how I remember
playing.
Post by pete mack
- Why is light DSM activation time so much shorter than medium DSM, at
least for elemental DSM where the activation actually counts for a lot?
I have no idea.
Post by pete mack
- Why do all my staves of Mass Identify have 0 charges? I'd love to
carry them. I suspect my turncount would go down a lot if I didn't use
pseudo-ID for dragon pits.
I don't clear dragon pits unless I have immunity. Well, sometimes I
clear green dragon pits, I guess.

I think _massid don't blow up on recharge excessively often. Also, use
the store service every time you return to town. Drop them
separately, and recharge one at a time.
Post by pete mack
I will try again, and hope for ESP instead of Detection, this time. I
used to hate Drolems, but now I love them, simply because they are not
Hydras.
:)


Eddie
pete mack
2006-01-13 03:39:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eddie Grove
Post by pete mack
- Why are you carrying Door location instead of magic mapping?
I was having trouble activating it. Also, I had multiple door
location and only one mapping.
Ah. Anyway, for small levels, I just buy staves in the store, and leave
a few rods of door detection at home, in case the store runs out.
Post by Eddie Grove
Post by pete mack
- How do you get by without Phase Door? I use a lot of archery in NPP.
After a certain point, I find phasing to be too dangerous. I don't
really know why, as it makes no sense, but I have gotten myself into
trouble too often after ?phase to ignore it any more. Teleport other,
I guess. I haven't done that so much either, just the one rod and
two wands [never recharged the wands] all game.
The real answer is to use stealth and not fight. After the midgame, I
only use archery against monsters that hit to confuse, or ones that
are running away. That's not a restriction, it is just how I remember
playing.
Got it, I guess. I presume with your gear you are going after Bile,
Swamp, Ice, and Hell Wyrms, using the DSM activation and potions. My
kit just didn't give me any choice but to use the bow, and GDSM is
excellent armor in NPP anyway. (And MHDSM is artifact quality.)
Post by Eddie Grove
Post by pete mack
- Why do all my staves of Mass Identify have 0 charges? I'd love to
carry them. I suspect my turncount would go down a lot if I didn't use
pseudo-ID for dragon pits.
I don't clear dragon pits unless I have immunity. Well, sometimes I
clear green dragon pits, I guess.
I think you are missing out. Power dragon pits around 2000' drop a lot
of good stuff. (Lots of rods, staves, rings, potions.) And Power
dragons are easy to kill as a warrior, though you may need to break
your rule about !Healing, as insurance.
Post by Eddie Grove
I think _massid don't blow up on recharge excessively often. Also, use
the store service every time you return to town. Drop them
separately, and recharge one at a time.
I had forgotten about the store service, damn it. it's been too long
since I played. I just thought it's strange to find all those staves
on the floor with zero charges. And then procede to blow them up
trying to recharge them.
Eddie Grove
2006-01-13 05:41:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by pete mack
I had forgotten about the store service, damn it. it's been too long
since I played. I just thought it's strange to find all those staves
on the floor with zero charges.
Hmm - that sounds buggy. I've never found a staff in NPP that started
with 0 charges. Ever. At least, not one I identified to find the
number of charges [I squelch most]. There ought to be something about
liches and anti-magic vortices draining staves on the ground, but I am
not aware of any variant actually implementing that. Maybe Jeff can
chime in on whether this is a bug or a feature.


Eddie
pete mack
2006-01-13 06:22:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eddie Grove
Post by pete mack
I had forgotten about the store service, damn it. it's been too long
since I played. I just thought it's strange to find all those staves
on the floor with zero charges.
Hmm - that sounds buggy. I've never found a staff in NPP that started
with 0 charges. Ever. At least, not one I identified to find the
number of charges [I squelch most]. There ought to be something about
liches and anti-magic vortices draining staves on the ground, but I am
not aware of any variant actually implementing that. Maybe Jeff can
chime in on whether this is a bug or a feature.
It's only staves of Mass ID that have this "feature" for me. All other
staves work the same way as Vanilla.

I will go in the debugger and force creation of a speed staff, and
trace what it's doing. I find it extremely annoying not to be able to
use those staves without first shelling out $4k. It's possible I broke
the code when I was experimenting with some changes a while back.

======

In any case, I'm trying again. No ESP or Detection, which means I'd be
dead immediately at Hydra depth. But my equipment is already a lot
better. No Power Dragon Pits yet. This game started pretty slow, but
picked up around 1200'. Currently at 2200', cl 28, ~200K moves, and
hoping for some Power Dragons to give me Detection, or a Vault to give
me ESP.

No useful stat potions yet, and I spent all my money on armor.


[Character Equipment]

a) a Whip of the Elements (1d3) (+7,+10) {RPois +10}
It is branded with frost and poison. It provides resistance
to cold and poison. It cannot be harmed by cold. It gives
you 5 attacks per turn.
b) a Light Crossbow (x3) (+6,+6)
c) a Ring of Accuracy
d) a Ring of Speed (+9) {Floor, 2050'}
It increases your speed by 9.
e) an Amulet of Charisma
f) The Phial of Galadriel {Floor, 500'}
It lights the dungeon around you. It cannot be harmed by the
elements. It might have hidden powers.
g) The Soft Leather Armour 'Hithlomir' [4,+20] (+4)
It increases your stealth by 4. It provides resistance to
acid, lightning, fire, cold, and dark. It cannot be harmed
by the elements.
h) a Cloak [1] {good}
i) a Small Metal Shield of Preservation [3,+25] {Black Market}
It provides resistance to dark, blindness, disenchantment,
and life draining. It sustains your strength, dexterity, and
constitution. It cannot be harmed by the elements.
j) a Metal Cap [3] {good}
k) a Set of Gauntlets of Free Action [2,+11] {Free Action}
It grants you immunity to paralysis.
l) a Pair of Hard Leather Boots of Stability [3,+8] {Stability}
It provides resistance to nexus. It makes you fall like a
feather.
pete mack
2006-01-13 06:59:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eddie Grove
Post by pete mack
I had forgotten about the store service, damn it. it's been too long
since I played. I just thought it's strange to find all those staves
on the floor with zero charges.
Hmm - that sounds buggy. I've never found a staff in NPP that started
with 0 charges. Ever. At least, not one I identified to find the
number of charges [I squelch most]. There ought to be something about
liches and anti-magic vortices draining staves on the ground, but I am
not aware of any variant actually implementing that. Maybe Jeff can
chime in on whether this is a bug or a feature.
Eddie--or somebody else--

do you have the source? It appears that there's a case missing from
charge_staff() in my copy of object2.c.

What is the right case statement for SV_STAFF_MASS_IDENTIFY? For now, I
just copied the one for TELEPORTATION, since 7 charges seems about
right.


Thanks.
Eddie Grove
2006-01-13 07:40:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by pete mack
Post by Eddie Grove
Post by pete mack
I had forgotten about the store service, damn it. it's been too long
since I played. I just thought it's strange to find all those staves
on the floor with zero charges.
Hmm - that sounds buggy. I've never found a staff in NPP that started
with 0 charges. Ever. At least, not one I identified to find the
number of charges [I squelch most]. There ought to be something about
liches and anti-magic vortices draining staves on the ground, but I am
not aware of any variant actually implementing that. Maybe Jeff can
chime in on whether this is a bug or a feature.
Eddie--or somebody else--
do you have the source? It appears that there's a case missing from
charge_staff() in my copy of object2.c.
What is the right case statement for SV_STAFF_MASS_IDENTIFY? For now, I
just copied the one for TELEPORTATION, since 7 charges seems about
right.
here is the entire function:

static void charge_staff(object_type *o_ptr)
{
switch (o_ptr->sval)
{
case SV_STAFF_DARKNESS: o_ptr->pval = randint(8) + 8; break;
case SV_STAFF_SLOWNESS: o_ptr->pval = randint(8) + 8; break;
case SV_STAFF_HASTE_MONSTERS: o_ptr->pval = randint(8) + 8; break;
case SV_STAFF_SUMMONING: o_ptr->pval = randint(3) + 1; break;
case SV_STAFF_TELEPORTATION: o_ptr->pval = randint(4) + 5; break;
case SV_STAFF_IDENTIFY: o_ptr->pval = randint(15) + 5; break;
case SV_STAFF_STARLITE: o_ptr->pval = randint(5) + 6; break;
case SV_STAFF_LITE: o_ptr->pval = randint(20) + 8; break;
case SV_STAFF_MAPPING: o_ptr->pval = randint(5) + 5; break;
case SV_STAFF_DETECT_GOLD: o_ptr->pval = randint(20) + 8; break;
case SV_STAFF_DETECT_ITEM: o_ptr->pval = randint(15) + 6; break;
case SV_STAFF_DETECT_TRAP: o_ptr->pval = randint(5) + 6; break;
case SV_STAFF_DETECT_DOOR: o_ptr->pval = randint(8) + 6; break;
case SV_STAFF_DETECT_INVIS: o_ptr->pval = randint(15) + 8; break;
case SV_STAFF_DETECT_EVIL: o_ptr->pval = randint(15) + 8; break;
case SV_STAFF_CURE_LIGHT: o_ptr->pval = randint(5) + 6; break;
case SV_STAFF_CURING: o_ptr->pval = randint(3) + 4; break;
case SV_STAFF_HEALING: o_ptr->pval = randint(2) + 1; break;
case SV_STAFF_THE_MAGI: o_ptr->pval = randint(2) + 2; break;
case SV_STAFF_SLEEP_MONSTERS: o_ptr->pval = randint(5) + 6; break;
case SV_STAFF_SLOW_MONSTERS: o_ptr->pval = randint(5) + 6; break;
case SV_STAFF_SPEED: o_ptr->pval = randint(3) + 4; break;
case SV_STAFF_PROBING: o_ptr->pval = randint(6) + 2; break;
case SV_STAFF_DISPEL_EVIL: o_ptr->pval = randint(3) + 4; break;
case SV_STAFF_POWER: o_ptr->pval = randint(3) + 1; break;
case SV_STAFF_HOLINESS: o_ptr->pval = randint(2) + 2; break;
case SV_STAFF_BANISHMENT: o_ptr->pval = randint(2) + 1; break;
case SV_STAFF_EARTHQUAKES: o_ptr->pval = randint(5) + 3; break;
case SV_STAFF_DESTRUCTION: o_ptr->pval = randint(3) + 1; break;
case SV_STAFF_MASS_IDENTIFY: o_ptr->pval = randint(5) + 5; break;
}
}
pete mack
2006-01-13 07:49:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eddie Grove
case SV_STAFF_MASS_IDENTIFY: o_ptr->pval = randint(5) + 5; break;
Thanks. My guess was pretty much right. And would you believe:

c) a Ring of Speed (+7)
It increases your speed by 7.
d) a Ring of Speed (+9)
It increases your speed by 9.

and still not a single (uncursed) Ring of Damage or Slaying. Second
ring replaced Accuracy.
Juho Schultz
2006-01-13 07:48:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by pete mack
Eddie--or somebody else--
do you have the source? It appears that there's a case missing from
charge_staff() in my copy of object2.c.
What is the right case statement for SV_STAFF_MASS_IDENTIFY? For now, I
just copied the one for TELEPORTATION, since 7 charges seems about
right.
Thanks.
case SV_STAFF_MASS_IDENTIFY: o_ptr->pval = randint(5) + 5; break;
Wil Hunt
2006-01-13 15:27:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eddie Grove
case SV_STAFF_MASS_IDENTIFY: o_ptr->pval = randint(5) + 5; break;
Come on, people, make him work for it..

case SV_STAFF_MASS_IDENTIFY: o_ptr->pval = 1; break;

:P

- --
Wil Hunt GM/CS/ED/S/! d(+) s+: a C++ UL++(--) P---(--) L+++ E W++ N++
Geek in training. M+(++) V- PS+ PE-(+) Y+ PGP+ t+ 5 X(+) R tv- b++
Jack of few trades, master of none. DI++ D--- G- e* h--- r+++ y**
pete mack
2006-01-13 18:01:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wil Hunt
Post by Eddie Grove
case SV_STAFF_MASS_IDENTIFY: o_ptr->pval = randint(5) + 5; break;
Come on, people, make him work for it..
case SV_STAFF_MASS_IDENTIFY: o_ptr->pval = 1; break;
:P
Ha Ha.

In any case, it wouldn't help. I also installed the new Quicktime, day
before yesterday. It seems to have broken the Angband compile on OS X
10.3.9. So I am playing with 0 charge mass id. it makes the game a
lot bit more expensive... I've put out a request to the local Mac
user's group for help. If I get any, I'll report it here, in case
there are any other Mac guys still on 10.3. Strangely, the game still
runs, yet the linker is reporting that the Quicktime graphics libraries
have missing symbols in Carbon and ApplicationServices. (This is very
bad; it suggests a broken operating system.) For some reason, the Mac
angband "terminal" uses a handful of functions from Quicktime. If I
knew more Carbon graphics, I'd just get rid of the quicktime
references. (Not to much use for moving graphics in angband...)
Wil Hunt
2006-01-13 22:38:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by pete mack
In any case, it wouldn't help. I also installed the new Quicktime, day
before yesterday. It seems to have broken the Angband compile on OS X
10.3.9. So I am playing with 0 charge mass id. it makes the game a
lot bit more expensive... I've put out a request to the local Mac
user's group for help. If I get any, I'll report it here, in case
there are any other Mac guys still on 10.3. Strangely, the game still
runs, yet the linker is reporting that the Quicktime graphics libraries
have missing symbols in Carbon and ApplicationServices. (This is very
bad; it suggests a broken operating system.) For some reason, the Mac
angband "terminal" uses a handful of functions from Quicktime. If I
knew more Carbon graphics, I'd just get rid of the quicktime
references. (Not to much use for moving graphics in angband...)
Eeks. That's too bad. I'd be interested in why that's happening,
though; so please post here when you get a solution. :)


- --
Wil Hunt GM/CS/ED/S/! d(+) s+: a C++ UL++(--) P---(--) L+++ E W++ N++
Geek in training. M+(++) V- PS+ PE-(+) Y+ PGP+ t+ 5 X(+) R tv- b++
Jack of few trades, master of none. DI++ D--- G- e* h--- r+++ y**
Antoine
2006-01-14 02:24:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Juho Schultz
Post by pete mack
Eddie--or somebody else--
do you have the source? It appears that there's a case missing from
charge_staff() in my copy of object2.c.
What is the right case statement for SV_STAFF_MASS_IDENTIFY? For now, I
just copied the one for TELEPORTATION, since 7 charges seems about
right.
Thanks.
case SV_STAFF_MASS_IDENTIFY: o_ptr->pval = randint(5) + 5; break;
The function would perhaps be more robust with a default branch, in
case none of the cases apply. This would prevent the same problem from
occurring in future when more staffs were added...?

A.
camlost
2006-01-14 03:13:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Antoine
Post by Juho Schultz
case SV_STAFF_MASS_IDENTIFY: o_ptr->pval = randint(5) + 5; break;
The function would perhaps be more robust with a default branch, in
case none of the cases apply. This would prevent the same problem from
occurring in future when more staffs were added...?
So, what,

default: o_ptr->pval = 3 + randint(3);

just in case someone forgets to add the appropriate line of code? And
make it kinda low, in case of powerful staves?

Joshua
pete mack
2006-01-14 03:22:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by camlost
Post by Antoine
Post by Juho Schultz
case SV_STAFF_MASS_IDENTIFY: o_ptr->pval = randint(5) + 5; break;
The function would perhaps be more robust with a default branch, in
case none of the cases apply. This would prevent the same problem from
occurring in future when more staffs were added...?
So, what,
default: o_ptr->pval = 3 + randint(3);
just in case someone forgets to add the appropriate line of code? And
make it kinda low, in case of powerful staves?
The usual default in such case is to abort(). It will be detected in
testing.
pete mack
2006-01-18 03:40:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eddie Grove
The real answer is to use stealth and not fight. After the midgame, I
only use archery against monsters that hit to confuse, or ones that
are running away. That's not a restriction, it is just how I remember
playing.
I'm convinced that this is a missed opportunity in NPP. For "powerful"
monsters, breath damage is .2 strength at 200', and .36 at 100'. (For
ordinary monsters, it's 1/2 that.) This means you can kill the
Tarrasque fairly easily with single resistance and +20 speed with
poison-brand bolts. (At 200', a single-resisted breath from the
Tarrasque does ~110 damage.) It's much easier to kill the Tarrasque
in NPP compared to V. Just don't use Phase or Rift.
Eddie Grove
2006-01-18 06:59:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by pete mack
Post by Eddie Grove
The real answer is to use stealth and not fight. After the midgame, I
only use archery against monsters that hit to confuse, or ones that
are running away. That's not a restriction, it is just how I remember
playing.
I'm convinced that this is a missed opportunity in NPP. For "powerful"
monsters, breath damage is .2 strength at 200', and .36 at 100'. (For
ordinary monsters, it's 1/2 that.) This means you can kill the
Tarrasque fairly easily with single resistance and +20 speed with
poison-brand bolts. (At 200', a single-resisted breath from the
Tarrasque does ~110 damage.) It's much easier to kill the Tarrasque
in NPP compared to V. Just don't use Phase or Rift.
I always forget about the damage reduction with distance.

That means missiles are even more overpowered. Not my style. I guess
I ought to change my style.


Eddie
Cliff Stamp
2006-01-14 06:24:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by pete mack
- How do you get by without any !Healing?
Use the Karate Kid defense.
--
Cliff Stamp
***@physics.mun.ca http://www.physics.mun.ca:80/~sstamp/

The one unforgivable sin, the offence against one's own integrity,
is to accept anything at all simply on authority -- Maureen Johnson Long

Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm. -- Publilius Syrus
Twisted
2006-01-14 12:27:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cliff Stamp
Post by Eddie Grove
I forgot about the damned water bolts that confuse.
That was a nice change
Eh -- I think water bolts and whirlpools have confused for a long time
in vanilla, at least back to version 2.7ish ... when monsters that use
these spells show up, it's a sign that confusion resistance is
something you really, really want. When monsters that use those spells
stop showing up it's a sign that you're expected to have gotten
confusion resistance a while back. ;)
Cliff Stamp
2006-01-14 06:23:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eddie Grove
I forgot about the damned water bolts that confuse.
That was a nice change, some guys which were trivial the last time I played
mauled my recent characters. I like to see this as an incremental attack
though rather than binary and thus instead of preventing an action just
increase the fail rate, resistance would be similar to elemental, not
immunities as they are now.
--
Cliff Stamp
***@physics.mun.ca http://www.physics.mun.ca:80/~sstamp/

The one unforgivable sin, the offence against one's own integrity,
is to accept anything at all simply on authority -- Maureen Johnson Long

Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm. -- Publilius Syrus
Anssi Ramela
2006-01-12 22:27:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eddie Grove
I never take any quests other than the (a) quests.
Hydra pits are particularly annoying with "always small levels".
I used to do that too, but at least with Warriors,
it usually means that the rewards are worse and I
never have enough decent gear to keep going once I
hit dlvl 40.

I can only wear one Short Sword of elements and
Long Bow of Power at a time.
Post by Eddie Grove
I've got solutions for you!
staff of destruction
scroll of destruction
scroll of teleport level
I don't like using *Destruction* for Hydra pits
because most of the time the Hydras find me so fast
that the Destruction zone won't cover more than a
third of the pit, leaving around 1/2 of the blasted
things around. I prefer to conserve my *Destructs*
and just flee the level wit stairs or TP_Level.
Post by Eddie Grove
Post by Anssi Ramela
I find it funny how I used to hate Hounds. Nowadays
I love them, mostly because they are not Hydras. :-P
How right you are. :)
Perhaps that is the purpose of the Hydra, to make all
other mosters look lovable.

Anssi Ramela
Antoine
2006-01-12 22:46:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anssi Ramela
Perhaps that is the purpose of the Hydra, to make all
other mosters look lovable.
I reckon Hydras should be slower moving (and perhaps less alert).

I think of a Hydra as a slow lumbering sort of monster.

A.
Jeff Greene
2006-01-15 16:21:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anssi Ramela
Perhaps that is the purpose of the Hydra, to make all
other mosters look lovable.
They are just a bit overpowered, and they show up far too frequently.
Particularly the pits and nests.

I had planned to tone them down for 050, but I am open to suggestions on
what to do with them.

But, I do want to add a bunch of new monsters at the deeper levels at the
same time. I think the game is much more interesting when there is always
something the player must run from. It is just right now only hydras are
performing that duty.

-Jeff
pete mack
2006-01-15 17:28:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeff Greene
Post by Anssi Ramela
Perhaps that is the purpose of the Hydra, to make all
other mosters look lovable.
They are just a bit overpowered, and they show up far too frequently.
Particularly the pits and nests.
I'm not sure they are overpowered. The real trouble is that most of
them are not Evil, which leads to a lot of deaths for my warriors, but
not so much for other classes.

But I agree about the pits and nests. I turn off autoscum for Hydra
Pit depth, then turn it back on for Dragon pits.
Post by Jeff Greene
I had planned to tone them down for 050, but I am open to suggestions on
what to do with them.
They certainly make the game exciting... maybe make a breed or two
that breathes nether, and is evil. That way you could always detect
the nests, though not always the pits. (Kind of like shambling mounds
and blue ickies.)
Post by Jeff Greene
But, I do want to add a bunch of new monsters at the deeper levels at the
same time. I think the game is much more interesting when there is always
something the player must run from. It is just right now only hydras are
performing that duty.
Hydras and the 4 new Wyrms are plenty for me, I assure you! And since
I leave a lot of uniques to the end, there are plenty of them to run
from, too, when they are all piled up at 4500'.

Hydras are worse than wyrms only because
(1) They show up earlier
(2) They are not Evil
Anssi Ramela
2006-01-15 18:55:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by pete mack
Hydras are worse than wyrms only because
(1) They show up earlier
(2) They are not Evil
No, IMO Hydras are worse than Wyrms because
they don't drop anything useful for their depth
and the gold the drop is hardly ever worth the
consumables that they destroy with their attacks.

I have no idea how to "fix" them though, without
turning them into something that is not a 'H'ydra. :-/

Anssi Ramela
pete mack
2006-01-15 19:08:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anssi Ramela
Post by pete mack
Hydras are worse than wyrms only because
(1) They show up earlier
(2) They are not Evil
No, IMO Hydras are worse than Wyrms because
they don't drop anything useful for their depth
and the gold the drop is hardly ever worth the
consumables that they destroy with their attacks.
That, too. I was just thinking about existential threats.
I have one more for the list:

(4) They awaken easily. Wyrms you can walk right past, if you have ok
stealth.
Post by Anssi Ramela
I have no idea how to "fix" them though, without
turning them into something that is not a 'H'ydra. :-/
Antoine
2006-01-15 20:50:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anssi Ramela
Post by pete mack
Hydras are worse than wyrms only because
(1) They show up earlier
(2) They are not Evil
No, IMO Hydras are worse than Wyrms because
they don't drop anything useful for their depth
and the gold the drop is hardly ever worth the
consumables that they destroy with their attacks.
I have no idea how to "fix" them though, without
turning them into something that is not a 'H'ydra. :-/
Make them move slower...
A.
Cliff Stamp
2006-01-16 01:13:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anssi Ramela
I have no idea how to "fix" them though, without
turning them into something that is not a 'H'ydra. :-/
There is no need to fix them, not everything in the game should be killed.
It is too one dimensional that way.
--
Cliff Stamp
***@physics.mun.ca http://www.physics.mun.ca:80/~sstamp/

The one unforgivable sin, the offence against one's own integrity,
is to accept anything at all simply on authority -- Maureen Johnson Long

Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm. -- Publilius Syrus
pete mack
2006-01-16 03:37:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cliff Stamp
Post by Anssi Ramela
I have no idea how to "fix" them though, without
turning them into something that is not a 'H'ydra. :-/
There is no need to fix them, not everything in the game should be killed.
It is too one dimensional that way.
I agree, except about the difficulty of detection. That has killed me
too many damn times. Maybe make 13-headers and/or 12-headers be evil;
12-headers have a nether attack, so they are a particularly good
candidate.
Cliff Stamp
2006-01-16 16:14:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by pete mack
I agree, except about the difficulty of detection.
Staves of detect monsters? There are a bunch of such guys, Drolems, vortex,
dogs, etc. . Hydra's are probably the worse. Plus this is one of the
significant class differences and moves mages/rangers away from
warriors/priests, I think more of this is a good thing.

As for flags, I would like to see more of this actually randomally set, with
the split being percentage based like 95% of orcs are evil, and so forth,
similar for spell power as I don't see every angel who throws mana bolts
getting the exact same damage distribution, there have got to be Rincewind
level guys.

Detection is also pretty interesting in Zang with the guys who actually do
chaos based attacks if you detect them. I would like to see that implemented
in Angband, similar for fear where you could have auto dice rolls based on
your level and the monsters power. Z

I'd also like to see the reverse as well, I don't see a lone snaga charging
Gandalf.
--
Cliff Stamp
***@physics.mun.ca http://www.physics.mun.ca:80/~sstamp/

The one unforgivable sin, the offence against one's own integrity,
is to accept anything at all simply on authority -- Maureen Johnson Long

Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm. -- Publilius Syrus
pete mack
2006-01-16 20:26:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cliff Stamp
Post by Anssi Ramela
I have no idea how to "fix" them though, without
turning them into something that is not a 'H'ydra. :-/
There is no need to fix them, not everything in the game should be killed.
It is too one dimensional that way.
I do have a request: it's a huge pain when the store runs out of
?Recall. I can live without most things, but not that. If I don't
have the cash to buy out the store, I am forced to either quit or
store-scum, which I really hate to do. This is only a problem through
1500' or so, by which time I usually have a decent stash of spare
scrolls at home to tide over shortages. Still, I'd like to see it as a
service, rather than costing about $10K as it does now. It's a lot
more important than restoring stats, I find. You can make it
expensive; maybe $1K per scroll, maybe as a black market service.
Cliff Stamp
2006-01-17 00:03:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by pete mack
I do have a request: it's a huge pain when the store runs out of
?Recall.
Yes, there are some things that are problematic for people who move fast,
you tend to use up more disposable items. I think it is pretty silly as well
for the shops to restock in a random manner, not a great way to make money.
I would like to see focused restocking. If you constantly buy massive
amounts of teleportation, CW, recall, etc., the shop keeper should get a
clue and I don't think it is unbalancing to always have them for sale unlike
things like !*healing* which would be, or staves of genocide or really
powerful scrolls.
--
Cliff Stamp
***@physics.mun.ca http://www.physics.mun.ca:80/~sstamp/

The one unforgivable sin, the offence against one's own integrity,
is to accept anything at all simply on authority -- Maureen Johnson Long

Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm. -- Publilius Syrus
Christophe Cavalaria
2006-01-17 00:15:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cliff Stamp
Post by pete mack
I do have a request: it's a huge pain when the store runs out of
?Recall.
Yes, there are some things that are problematic for people who move fast,
you tend to use up more disposable items. I think it is pretty silly as
well for the shops to restock in a random manner, not a great way to make
money. I would like to see focused restocking. If you constantly buy
massive amounts of teleportation, CW, recall, etc., the shop keeper should
get a clue and I don't think it is unbalancing to always have them for
sale unlike things like !*healing* which would be, or staves of genocide
or really powerful scrolls.
I would even say that there's no chance for it to be unbalancing for the
stores to stockup an infinite amount of WoR. Let's face it, until somewhat
late in the game, there's no other sane way to travel to and from the
dungeon. Since there's no other way to do it, having to scum for such a
fundamental piece of equipement is annoying.
pete mack
2006-01-17 07:24:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Christophe Cavalaria
I would even say that there's no chance for it to be unbalancing for the
stores to stockup an infinite amount of WoR. Let's face it, until somewhat
late in the game, there's no other sane way to travel to and from the
dungeon. Since there's no other way to do it, having to scum for such a
fundamental piece of equipement is annoying.
Well, that's not quite true. If you go down to 1000', find all the
"good" items, then come back, over and over, just trying to increase
cash, you deserve to suffer. That's why I thought excess ones can cost
$1000, since that's expensive compared to a Mace (+3,+1), or a Wand of
Wonder.

I tend to use them up because once I get past 2000', I usally have only
2 or 3 free slots for loot, with swap items, utility devices, and ammo
filling up the rest. Especially in NPP, where it's such a huge
challenge to just stay alive, much less actually fight any monsters.
pete mack
2006-01-17 02:58:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cliff Stamp
Post by pete mack
I do have a request: it's a huge pain when the store runs out of
?Recall.
Yes, there are some things that are problematic for people who move fast,
you tend to use up more disposable items. I think it is pretty silly as well
for the shops to restock in a random manner, not a great way to make money.
I would like to see focused restocking. If you constantly buy massive
amounts of teleportation, CW, recall, etc., the shop keeper should get a
clue and I don't think it is unbalancing to always have them for sale unlike
things like !*healing* which would be, or staves of genocide or really
powerful scrolls.
Yes. It's pretty screwy that I can buy all the !Healing I can afford.
But !CCW is limited by how much is in the shop.

I don't usually run out of Teleportation, but often out of ?WoR.

What I use up the most often:
!CCW (for cuts & stun, but also to heal in tight quarters.)
?WoR
Ammo
Cliff Stamp
2006-01-17 16:07:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by pete mack
!CCW (for cuts & stun, but also to heal in tight quarters.)
I don't use them much in fights directly, but tend to afterwards or to
recover from breaths/balls. This is purely a turn-count thing of course,
though even in other games they can make an influence in blink/CCW several
times etc. .
--
Cliff Stamp
***@physics.mun.ca http://www.physics.mun.ca:80/~sstamp/

The one unforgivable sin, the offence against one's own integrity,
is to accept anything at all simply on authority -- Maureen Johnson Long

Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm. -- Publilius Syrus
Wil Hunt
2006-01-17 04:32:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cliff Stamp
Post by pete mack
I do have a request: it's a huge pain when the store runs out of
?Recall.
Yes, there are some things that are problematic for people who move fast,
you tend to use up more disposable items. I think it is pretty silly as well
for the shops to restock in a random manner, not a great way to make money.
I would like to see focused restocking. If you constantly buy massive
amounts of teleportation, CW, recall, etc., the shop keeper should get a
clue and I don't think it is unbalancing to always have them for sale unlike
things like !*healing* which would be, or staves of genocide or really
powerful scrolls.
In fact, not only would it be nice to see them restock based on your
purchases (or "get a clue" as you stated), but to then charge more for
the items you routinely buy. If you're buying 10 !CCWs each trip, they
should raise the price. Nothing like a free-market dungeon economy!

Wil

- --
Wil Hunt GM/CS/ED/S/! d(+) s+: a C++ UL++(--) P---(--) L+++ E W++ N++
Geek in training. M+(++) V- PS+ PE-(+) Y+ PGP+ t+ 5 X(+) R tv- b++
Jack of few trades, master of none. DI++ D--- G- e* h--- r+++ y**
Cliff Stamp
2006-01-17 16:12:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wil Hunt
In fact, not only would it be nice to see them restock based on your
purchases (or "get a clue" as you stated), but to then charge more for
the items you routinely buy. If you're buying 10 !CCWs each trip, they
should raise the price.
I would not have a problem with that because it would push for conservation
of resources of course you also have a lot of other nice items for the shop
keeper to buy which he sells to other people for a huge markup so if he
suddenly wants $1000 for a CCW then my HA dagger is going to cost him as
well.
--
Cliff Stamp
***@physics.mun.ca http://www.physics.mun.ca:80/~sstamp/

The one unforgivable sin, the offence against one's own integrity,
is to accept anything at all simply on authority -- Maureen Johnson Long

Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm. -- Publilius Syrus
Wil Hunt
2006-01-17 17:38:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cliff Stamp
Post by Wil Hunt
In fact, not only would it be nice to see them restock based on your
purchases (or "get a clue" as you stated), but to then charge more for
the items you routinely buy. If you're buying 10 !CCWs each trip, they
should raise the price.
I would not have a problem with that because it would push for conservation
of resources of course you also have a lot of other nice items for the shop
keeper to buy which he sells to other people for a huge markup so if he
suddenly wants $1000 for a CCW then my HA dagger is going to cost him as
well.
I was actually thinking something of the reverse. That is, as you sell
more and more {excellent} items to the shops, the market becomes more
demanding and the value goes down. Thus your HA dagger will sell for
*less* as the game progresses. This free-trade compromise might also
help to make gold more useful later in the game. Of course, my thoughts
are centered around Vanilla, but I think it's a similar issue in NPP
with regard to the uselessness of gold late in the game.

- --
Wil Hunt GM/CS/ED/S/! d(+) s+: a C++ UL++(--) P---(--) L+++ E W++ N++
Geek in training. M+(++) V- PS+ PE-(+) Y+ PGP+ t+ 5 X(+) R tv- b++
Jack of few trades, master of none. DI++ D--- G- e* h--- r+++ y**
Cliff Stamp
2006-01-17 18:12:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wil Hunt
I was actually thinking something of the reverse. That is, as you sell
more and more {excellent} items to the shops, the market becomes more
demanding and the value goes down.
The problem is that it is now too one sided, there is apparently a huge
market of people who buy/sell items to the basically one shop (it restocks
with random items even if you don't buy/sell) so that guy if he wanted to
could pull a Gates. All you would do in reality was threaten to sell your
goods somewhere else, or in fact just standout side the store and give them
away and run him out of business because on a any given deep trip you can
often carry much more valuable items than the stores have thus you could put
massive pressure on the shop keepers. If you look at it long term, in any
given game I typically see much more items of worth from drops/vaults than
in stores and thus what I would offer to the shopkeeper is much more
valuable than anyone else (considering what he brings himself randomally as
the total of his other resources).
--
Cliff Stamp
***@physics.mun.ca http://www.physics.mun.ca:80/~sstamp/

The one unforgivable sin, the offence against one's own integrity,
is to accept anything at all simply on authority -- Maureen Johnson Long

Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm. -- Publilius Syrus
Billy Bissette
2006-01-17 19:23:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wil Hunt
I was actually thinking something of the reverse. That is, as you
sell more and more {excellent} items to the shops, the market becomes
more demanding and the value goes down.
If you seriously wanted to simulate market factors in shop prices,
you'd likely want to revalue all the items in the process. Items
are currently priced with a fixed value system with infinite money
production, major price jumps at the upper end of the scale, and
shop offers capped sometimes harshly to prevent the player from
exploiting those high end items for himself.
pete mack
2006-01-17 21:45:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Billy Bissette
Post by Wil Hunt
I was actually thinking something of the reverse. That is, as you
sell more and more {excellent} items to the shops, the market becomes
more demanding and the value goes down.
If you seriously wanted to simulate market factors in shop prices,
you'd likely want to revalue all the items in the process. Items
are currently priced with a fixed value system with infinite money
production, major price jumps at the upper end of the scale, and
shop offers capped sometimes harshly to prevent the player from
exploiting those high end items for himself.
This is getting pretty far OT. The current model is pretty good, with
an ordinary price, and a bootleg price to penalize a player for running
through resources. You can already get all the resources you need if
you are willing to store-scum by dodging to level 1 or by buying out
the shops. What we started out discussing was a way to add a few items
to the bootleg list.
Billy Bissette
2006-01-18 00:51:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by pete mack
Post by Billy Bissette
If you seriously wanted to simulate market factors in shop prices,
you'd likely want to revalue all the items in the process. Items
are currently priced with a fixed value system with infinite money
production, major price jumps at the upper end of the scale, and
shop offers capped sometimes harshly to prevent the player from
exploiting those high end items for himself.
This is getting pretty far OT. The current model is pretty good,
with an ordinary price, and a bootleg price to penalize a player for
running through resources. You can already get all the resources
you need if you are willing to store-scum by dodging to level 1 or
by buying out the shops. What we started out discussing was a way
to add a few items to the bootleg list.
Yes, I wasn't exactly suggesting the above.

The original version of the post jokingly went to the point of
suggesting an Angband store sim game, where you could even be the
shopkeeper supplying (and encouraging, for your own profits) a
horde of faceless adventures to delve into the dungeons. Which
could indeed be done as an interesting and decent game, but likely
isn't what many people here would want.
Antoine
2006-01-18 00:59:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Billy Bissette
The original version of the post jokingly went to the point of
suggesting an Angband store sim game, where you could even be the
shopkeeper supplying (and encouraging, for your own profits) a
horde of faceless adventures to delve into the dungeons. Which
could indeed be done as an interesting and decent game, but likely
isn't what many people here would want.
That could be fun. How might it work?

A.
Timo Pietilä
2006-01-17 05:51:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by pete mack
I do have a request: it's a huge pain when the store runs out of
?Recall. I can live without most things, but not that. If I don't
have the cash to buy out the store, I am forced to either quit or
Didn't one of the stores sell those as store service? Magic shop?

Timo Pietilä
Antoine
2006-01-17 22:02:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Timo Pietilä
Post by pete mack
I do have a request: it's a huge pain when the store runs out of
?Recall. I can live without most things, but not that. If I don't
have the cash to buy out the store, I am forced to either quit or
Didn't one of the stores sell those as store service? Magic shop?
Would the store service be to 'get a ?Recall', or to actually cast
Recall on you?

The former seems a bit 'off-concept' because no other store service
actually gives you an item. The latter seems more natural, but leaves
you with the problem of getting back from depth...

A.
Hugo Kornelis
2006-01-17 22:32:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Antoine
Post by Timo Pietilä
Post by pete mack
I do have a request: it's a huge pain when the store runs out of
?Recall. I can live without most things, but not that. If I don't
have the cash to buy out the store, I am forced to either quit or
Didn't one of the stores sell those as store service? Magic shop?
Would the store service be to 'get a ?Recall', or to actually cast
Recall on you?
The former seems a bit 'off-concept' because no other store service
actually gives you an item. The latter seems more natural, but leaves
you with the problem of getting back from depth...
Hi Antoine,

There are other store services that give you items. Dungeon books in the
magic shop and the temple; healing potions in the temple.

Best, Hugo
--
Angband spoilers: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/hugo_kornelis/Angband/Spoiler/index.htm
Angband UI Patch: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/hugo_kornelis/Angband/UIpatch/index.htm
--
Jeff Greene
2006-01-18 01:39:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Timo Pietilä
Post by pete mack
I do have a request: it's a huge pain when the store runs out of
?Recall. I can live without most things, but not that. If I don't
have the cash to buy out the store, I am forced to either quit or
Didn't one of the stores sell those as store service? Magic shop?
Timo Pietilä
In NPP, Scrolls of WOR are marked in the code as a "always in stock item",
meaning their inventory is only reduced if the player buys them or there are
something like 99 of them. I think this is a good system, but I missed two
flaws: The native depth on scrolls of WOR is deep enough that they don't
always get generated until the player reaches a certain level themselves
(the object generation level for the stores is based on the players
character level and max depth). I had an annoying time finding staves of
perception at the beginning of the game as well. The other flaw is that,
when a shopkeeper is shuffled, all that stored up inventory goes away.

Maybe that should be a service, as well as CCW potions.

-Jeff
Eddie Grove
2006-01-18 02:11:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeff Greene
Post by Timo Pietilä
Post by pete mack
I do have a request: it's a huge pain when the store runs out of
?Recall. I can live without most things, but not that. If I don't
have the cash to buy out the store, I am forced to either quit or
Didn't one of the stores sell those as store service? Magic shop?
Timo Pietilä
In NPP, Scrolls of WOR are marked in the code as a "always in stock item",
meaning their inventory is only reduced if the player buys them or there are
something like 99 of them. I think this is a good system, but I missed two
flaws: The native depth on scrolls of WOR is deep enough that they don't
always get generated until the player reaches a certain level themselves
(the object generation level for the stores is based on the players
character level and max depth). I had an annoying time finding staves of
perception at the beginning of the game as well. The other flaw is that,
when a shopkeeper is shuffled, all that stored up inventory goes away.
Maybe that should be a service, as well as CCW potions.
-Jeff
So long as the discussion is ongoing, let me add my own silly opinion.
I think there should be no randomization of the shop items. Certain
items should be marked as "in-the-shops", and said items should always
be in stock, in unlimited quantity. For the rest, go find them in the
dungeon.

I suppose you could add a separate category of items that come in
fixed quantity for the game and are not restocked. I have mellowed.
I used to believe that all store objects should be this way.

If you allow scumming for store items, why not just make them unlimited?


Eddie
pete mack
2006-01-18 02:21:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeff Greene
In NPP, Scrolls of WOR are marked in the code as a "always in stock item",
meaning their inventory is only reduced if the player buys them or there are
something like 99 of them. I think this is a good system, but I missed two
flaws: The native depth on scrolls of WOR is deep enough that they don't
always get generated until the player reaches a certain level themselves
(the object generation level for the stores is based on the players
character level and max depth). I had an annoying time finding staves of
perception at the beginning of the game as well. The other flaw is that,
when a shopkeeper is shuffled, all that stored up inventory goes away.
The trouble is that when I'm speed-diving, I carry a ton of swap
equipment and utility rods in inventory, with only a very few slots for
loot. So I end up recalling faster than the store restocks, until I no
longer care about money. By that time, I generally have a rod or
spell anyway.

I only commonly run out of Recall and CCW, less often for ?Phase
(warrior), ammo (ranger) and Teleportation.
Timo Pietilä
2006-01-18 09:39:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by pete mack
The trouble is that when I'm speed-diving, I carry a ton of swap
equipment and utility rods in inventory, with only a very few slots for
loot. So I end up recalling faster than the store restocks
That's different way of diving than I do. When I'm diving fast I pretty
much play like ironman-downstairs, and _not_ recall. I even use
downstairs as escapes. In that way stores always restock before I
recall. Downpoint is that I leave behind items that could be useful.

Timo Pietilä
Twisted
2006-01-18 05:47:50 UTC
Permalink
Simple solution: items flagged "always in stock" always pass generation
level checks and are always kept through changes of management. :)
pete mack
2006-01-18 06:49:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Twisted
Simple solution: items flagged "always in stock" always pass generation
level checks and are always kept through changes of management. :)
Shopkeepers changing just isn't at issue for me. By the time the first
change happens, the game is usually over, one way or another, and I'm
certainly no longer using Scrolls of Recall.
pete mack
2006-01-20 05:23:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeff Greene
In NPP, Scrolls of WOR are marked in the code as a "always in stock item",
meaning their inventory is only reduced if the player buys them or there are
something like 99 of them. I think this is a good system, but I missed two
flaws: The native depth on scrolls of WOR is deep enough that they don't
always get generated until the player reaches a certain level themselves
(the object generation level for the stores is based on the players
character level and max depth). I had an annoying time finding staves of
perception at the beginning of the game as well. The other flaw is that,
when a shopkeeper is shuffled, all that stored up inventory goes away.
Maybe that should be a service, as well as CCW potions.
I figured out why ?Recall is such a problem in NPP compared to V.
There are two things. One is, small levels means you find more loot
per turn on average. But the second is more important. If the store
completely restocks, the chance of filling a slot with ?Recall is
higher than if the store is already full of the stuff you are less
interested in. So if you are willing to stock up at home, as I do for
recall, there will be more of that available, on average in V than in
NPP.

The NPP no-restock is great for stuff like magic books, where you
occasionally need a new one, But it's not good at all for Recall,
where you are always on the edge of running out.
Timo Pietilä
2006-01-15 20:29:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by pete mack
Hydras are worse than wyrms only because
(1) They show up earlier
(2) They are not Evil
+ breathe things that are unresistable
+ are fast
+ are not worth killing

They are much like zephyr hounds, only nastier.

Timo Pietilä
Anssi Ramela
2006-01-16 10:40:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Timo Pietilä
They are much like zephyr hounds, only nastier.
This one sentence pretty much sums up my objection
to Hydras.

Anssi Ramela
pete mack
2006-01-18 02:06:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by pete mack
I'm trying to win in < 1 M moves.
Back to the original topic. This is my 3rd or 4th attempt. I'm ready
to kill Sauron, but I don't have enough healing potions for Morgoth...


This is the return after killing Saruman and clearing out a Green
Dragon pit at 4350'. I had a chance at Feagwath too, but I activated
_Destruction instead of _Speed :(

(Biggest trouble is juggling RElec & RPois with everything else.)

Question: what to sell, what to keep?

NOTE: Calris is a swap with something that doesn't aggravate. Up to
now it was with Haradekket. I can't stand permanent aggravation in
NPP.


[NPPAngband 0.4.1 Character Dump]

Name Condoleeza Self RB CB EB Best
Sex Female Age 128 Str! 18/100 +1 +5 +8 18/24018/235
Race High-Elf Height 89 INT: 18/91 +3 -2 +4 18/141
Class Warrior Weight 177 WIS: 18/78 -1 -2 +2 18/68
Title Hero Status 32 DEX: 18/98 +3 +2 +8 18/228
HP 922/922 CON: 18/97 +1 +2 +15 18/277
SP 0/0 Level 41 CHR: 18/42 +5 -1 +2 18/102

GameTurn 622591 Armor [56,+125] Saving Throw Heroic
Cur Exp 2541752 Fight (+44,+38) Stealth Superb
Max Exp 2541752 Melee (+51,+58) Fighting Legendary
Adv Exp 458248 Shoot (+54,+14) Shooting Legendary
MaxDepth 4350 ft Blows 6/turn Disarming Superb
Gold 103990 Shots 1/turn Magic Device Superb
Burden 260 lbs Speed +17 Perception Poor
% Burden 86% Infra 70 ft Searching Poor

You are one of several children of a Telerin Ranger. You have
light grey eyes, straight black hair, and a fair complexion.




[Character Equipment Stat Modifiers, Sustains and Flags]

(+/-) + + +++++
|}=="~[()]]] |}=="~[()]]]
abcdefghijkl@ abcdefghijkl@
Str: ..2.....42... Str: .........s...
Int: ..2....2..... Int: ..s....s.....
Wis: ..2.......... Wis: ..s..........
Dex: ..2......24.. Dex: .........s...
Con: 5.2...2.42... Con: ......s..s...
Chr: ..2.......... Chr: ..s..........
abcdefghijkl@ abcdefghijkl@
Acid:....+.+.*.+.. Blind:..+........+.
Elec:....+........ Confu:......+......
Fire:....+......+. Sound:........+....
Cold:..*.+.+...... Shard:...........+.
Pois:............. Nexus:......+......
Fear:......+.+...+ Nethr:......+......
Lite:...........++ Chaos:......+.+..+.
Dark:......+....+. Disen:+............
abcdefghijkl@ abcdefghijkl@
S.Dig:............. Stea.:.....+.+...+.
Feath:..+.......... Sear.:.............
PLite:...........+. Infra:.............
Regen:..+.......... Aggr.:+............
Telep:..+....+..... Speed:.+++.........
Invis:..+.........+ Blows:.............
FrAct:..+.....++++. Shots:.............
HLife:..+...+...... Might:.............
abcdefghijkl@ abcdefghijkl@
|}=="~[()]]] |}=="~[()]]]

[Character Equipment]

a) The Bastard Sword 'Calris' (5d4) (+7,+20) (+5) {@w0}
It increases your constitution by 5. It slays trolls, demons,
and all evil creatures, and it is especially deadly against
dragons. It provides resistance to disenchantment. It
aggravates creatures around you. It cannot be harmed by the
elements. It gives you 6 attacks per turn.
b) The Heavy Crossbow 'Cubragol' (x4) (+10,+14) (+10) {Chest, 4350'}
It increases your speed by 10. It cannot be harmed by the
elements. It might have hidden powers.
c) The Ring of Power 'Nenya' (+8,+8) (+2)
It increases all your stats by 2. It increases your speed by
2. It provides immunity to cold. It provides resistance to
blindness and life draining. It sustains your intelligence,
wisdom, and charisma. It makes you fall like a feather and
speeds your regeneration. It grants you immunity to paralysis,
the power of telepathy, and the ability to see invisible
things. It activates for large frost ball (200) every 20+d20
turns. It cannot be harmed by the elements.
d) a Ring of Speed (+8)
It increases your speed by 8.
e) an Amulet of Resistance
It provides resistance to acid, lightning, fire, and cold.
It cannot be harmed by the elements.
f) a Brass Lantern of Stealth (with 11389 turns of light) (+3)
It increases your stealth by 3. It cannot be harmed by fire.

g) The Adamantite Plate Mail 'Soulkeeper' (-4) [40,+20] (+2)
It increases your constitution by 2. It provides resistance
to acid, cold, fear, dark, confusion, nexus, nether, chaos,
and life draining. It sustains your constitution. It
activates for heal (1000) every 444 turns. It cannot be
harmed by the elements.
h) a Cloak of the Magi [1,+8] (+2) {ESP}
It increases your intelligence by 2. It increases your
stealth by 2. It sustains your intelligence. It grants you
the power of telepathy. It cannot be harmed by acid.
i) The Small Metal Shield of Thorin [3,+25] (+4) {Floor, 4150'}
It increases your strength and constitution by 4. It
provides immunity to acid. It provides resistance to fear,
sound, and chaos. It grants you immunity to paralysis. It
cannot be harmed by the elements.
j) a Golden Crown of Might [0,+8] (+2) {@w1}
It increases your strength, dexterity, and constitution by 2.
It sustains your strength, dexterity, and constitution. It
grants you immunity to paralysis. It cannot be harmed by the
elements.
k) The Set of Cesti of Fingolfin (+10,+10) [5,+20] (+4) {Acquirement,
4350'}
It increases your dexterity by 4. It provides resistance to
acid. It grants you immunity to paralysis. It activates for
a magical arrow (150) every 30+d30 turns. It cannot be
harmed by the elements.
l) The Pair of Metal Shod Boots 'Bastir' [7,+29] (+1)
It increases your stealth by 1. It provides resistance to
fire, light, dark, blindness, shards, and chaos. It lights
the dungeon around you. It grants you immunity to paralysis.
It cannot be harmed by the elements.


[Character Inventory]

a) a Potion of Healing {!*}
b) 9 Scrolls of Teleport Level {!*}
c) 4 Rods of Perception {!!@z1}
It cannot be harmed by electricity.
d) 2 Rods of Recall {!!,!*}
It cannot be harmed by electricity.
e) 5 Rods of Illumination {@z3}
f) a Rod of Detection {@z8,!!}
It cannot be harmed by electricity.
g) 4 Rods of Stone to Mud {@z6,!!}
h) 4 Rods of Teleport Other {!!,!*}
i) a Rod of Mass Identify {!!}
It cannot be harmed by electricity.
j) 6 Wands of Teleport Other (42 charges) {!*}
k) 3 Staffs of Speed (9 charges) {!*}
l) 4 Staffs of *Destruction* (8 charges) {!*}
m) a Ring of Slaying (+10,+13)
n) a Ring of Speed (+8)
It increases your speed by 8.
o) The Ring of Barahir (+1) {RPois,RDark}
It increases all your stats by 1. It increases your stealth
by 1. It provides resistance to poison and dark. It cannot
be harmed by the elements.
p) The Amulet of Carlammas (+2)
It increases your constitution by 2. It provides resistance
to fire. It activates for protection from evil every
225+d225 turns. It cannot be harmed by the elements.
q) The Metal Brigandine Armour of the Rohirrim [19,+15] (+2)
It increases your strength and dexterity by 2. It provides
resistance to acid, lightning, fire, cold, fear, confusion,
and sound. It cannot be harmed by the elements.
r) a Jewel Encrusted Crown of the Magi [0,+12] (+1)
It increases your intelligence by 1. It provides resistance
to acid, lightning, fire, and cold. It sustains your
intelligence. It speeds your regeneration. It cannot be
harmed by the elements.
s) The Scimitar 'Haradekket' (2d5) (+9,+11) (+2) {@w0}
It increases your dexterity by 2. It increases your attack
speed by 2. It slays animals, undead, and all evil creatures.
It grants you the ability to see invisible things. It cannot
be harmed by the elements. It gives you 8 attacks per turn.

t) The Great Axe of Eonwe (5d4) (+15,+18) [+8] (+2) (charging)
It increases all your stats by 2. It cannot be harmed by the
elements. It gives you 6 attacks per turn. It might have
hidden powers.
u) The Whip of Gothmog (6d3) (+13,+15) (-3)
It decreases your intelligence, wisdom, and dexterity by 3.
It slays animals, trolls, and giants, and it is especially
deadly against dragons. It is branded with fire. It
provides immunity to fire. It provides resistance to
lightning and dark. It lights the dungeon around you. It
aggravates creatures around you. It activates for large fire
ball (120) every 15 turns. It cannot be harmed by the
elements. It gives you 6 attacks per turn.
v) The Lead-Filled Mace 'Suluian' (3d4) (+3,+20) (+2)
It increases your constitution and charisma by 2. It is
branded with acid and electricity. It provides immunity to
cold. It provides resistance to acid, lightning, and poison.
It sustains your charisma. It lights the dungeon around you.
It cannot be harmed by the elements. It gives you 6 attacks
per turn.
w) 16 Mithril Bolts of Slay Demon (3d5) (+8,+12)
It slays demons. It cannot be harmed by acid or fire.

[Home Inventory Stat Modifiers, Sustains and Flags]

(+/-) ++ ++++
,!!!!?????___=~[)]]]]}}{ ,!!!!?????___=~[)]]]]}}{
abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwx abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwx
Str: ...................3.2.. Str: ........................
Int: ..............2...2.3... Int: ........................
Wis: ..............2...2..... Wis: ........................
Dex: ...................33... Dex: ........................
Con: ...............1...3.2.. Con: ........................
Chr: ........................ Chr: ........................
abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwx abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwx
Acid: ...............++....... Blind: ..............+...+.....
Elec: ...............++....... Confu: ...............+..+.....
Fire: ...............++....... Sound: ...............+........
Cold: ...............++....... Shard: ........................
Pois: ................+....... Nexus: ...............+........
Fear: ........................ Nethr: ........................
Lite: ........................ Chaos: ..............+.........
Dark: ........................ Disen: ........................
abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwx abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwx
S.Dig: ........................ Stea.: ................+...+...
Feath: ........................ Sear.: ..............+...+.....
PLite: ........................ Infra: ..............+.........
Regen: ........................ Aggr.: ........................
Telep: ..............+..+...... Speed: ........................
Invis: ..............+...+..... Blows: ........................
FrAct: ........................ Shots: ......................+.
HLife: ........................ Might: .....................+..
abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwx abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwx
,!!!!?????___=~[)]]]]}}{ ,!!!!?????___=~[)]]]]}}{

[Home Inventory]

a) 4 Mushrooms of Restoring {!*}
b) 9 Potions of Speed {!*}
c) 6 Potions of Healing {!*}
d) 3 Potions of *Healing* {!*}
e) 4 Potions of Life
f) 6 Scrolls of Teleportation {!*}
g) 19 Scrolls of Teleport Level {!*}
h) 4 Scrolls of *Destruction* {!*}
i) 3 Scrolls of Banishment {!*}
j) a Scroll of Mass Banishment {!*}
k) a Staff of Teleportation (7 charges) {!*}
l) 2 Staffs of Speed (4 charges) {!*}
m) 2 Staffs of *Destruction* (4 charges) {!*}
n) a Ring of Damage (+17)
o) The Palantir of Westernesse (+2)
It increases your intelligence and wisdom by 2. It increases
your searching and infravision by 2. It provides resistance
to blindness and chaos. It lights the dungeon around you.
It grants you the power of telepathy and the ability to see
invisible things, but it also drains experience. It
activates for clairvoyance every 50+d50 turns. It cannot be
harmed by the elements.
p) The Full Plate Armour of Isildur [25,+25] (+1)
It increases your constitution by 1. It provides resistance
to acid, lightning, fire, cold, confusion, sound, and nexus.
It cannot be harmed by the elements.
q) a Small Leather Shield of Elvenkind [2,+15] (+3 to stealth)
It increases your stealth by 3. It provides resistance to
acid, lightning, fire, cold, and poison. It cannot be harmed
by the elements.
r) an Iron Crown of Telepathy [0,+13]
It grants you the power of telepathy.
s) The Iron Helm 'Holhenneth' [5,+9] (+2) {!!,@w1}
It increases your intelligence and wisdom by 2. It increases
your searching by 2. It provides resistance to blindness and
confusion. It grants you the ability to see invisible things.
It activates for detection every 55+d55 turns. It cannot be
harmed by the elements.
t) The Steel Helm of Hammerhand [6,+20] (+3)
It increases your strength, dexterity, and constitution by 3.
It cannot be harmed by the elements. It might have hidden
powers.
u) The Pair of Soft Leather Boots of Avarri [2,+15] (+3)
It increases your intelligence and dexterity by 3. It
increases your stealth by 3. It activates for phase door
every 20 turns. It cannot be harmed by the elements.
v) The Light Crossbow of Umbar (x3) (+18,+18) (+2)
It increases your strength and constitution by 2. It
increases your shooting power by 2. It cannot be harmed by
the elements. It might have hidden powers.
w) a Light Crossbow of Extra Shots (x3) (+18,+14) (+1)
It increases your shooting speed by 1.
x) 40 Bolts of Slay Evil (1d5) (+12,+8) {25% off}
It slays all evil creatures.

Condoleeza the High-Elf Warrior
Began the quest to kill Morgoth on 01/15/2006 at 05:42 PM
============================================================
CHAR.
| TURN | DEPTH |LEVEL| EVENT
============================================================
| 8201| 150 | 5 | Reached level 5
| 18134| 150 | 7 | Quest: Killed 12 Green nagas
| 22519| 500 | 10 | Reached level 10
| 25836| 500 | 11 | Killed Grishnakh, the Hill Orc
| 29381| 500 | 12 | Killed Orfax, Son of Boldor
| 33289| 500 | 12 | Killed Grip, Farmer Maggot's dog
| 35484| 500 | 12 | Killed Lagduf, the Snaga
| 63212| 800 | 15 | Reached level 15
| 67856| 800 | 14 | Killed Wolf, Farmer Maggot's dog
| 77278| 900 | 15 | Killed Ulfast, Son of Ulfang
| 78556| Town | 17 | Killed Lotho Pimple
| 87442| 950 | 17 | Killed Boldor, King of the Yeeks
| 91747| 1050 | 18 | Killed Brodda, the Easterling
| 123838| 1150 | 20 | Reached level 20
| 192710| 1800 | 25 | Reached level 25
| 204928| 2000 | 25 | Killed Ulwarth, Son of Ulfang
| 216702| 2050 | 24 | Killed Uldor the Accursed
| 222942| 2050 | 25 | Killed Maglor, Son of Feanor
| 263425| 2150 | 26 | Killed Gorbag, the Orc Captain
| 323051| 2350 | 29 | Killed Ufthak of Cirith Ungol
| 332749| 2450 | 29 | Found The Phial of Galadriel
| 338142| 2450 | 30 | Reached level 30
| 355143| 2500 | 30 | Killed Golfimbul, the Hill Orc Chief
| 356763| 2500 | 31 | Destroyed Akhorahil the Blind
| 356790| 2500 | 31 | Found The Amulet of Carlammas
| 357869| 2500 | 31 | Found The Jewel 'Evenstar'
| 383884| 2650 | 31 | Killed Beorn, the Shape-Changer
| 397964| 2750 | 31 | Killed Wormtongue, Agent of Saruman
| 397994| 2750 | 31 | Found The Pair of Soft Leather Boots of
Avarri
| 402699| 2750 | 31 | Destroyed Ren the Unclean
| 404949| 2750 | 31 | Found The Large Metal Shield of Anarion
| 405129| 2750 | 31 | Found The Bastard Sword 'Calris'
| 407784| 2750 | 31 | Found The Star of Elendil
| 438529| 2850 | 31 | Killed Smeagol
| 438624| 2850 | 31 | Found The Iron Helm 'Holhenneth'
| 438873| 2850 | 31 | Killed Azog, King of the Uruk-Hai
| 440588| 2850 | 31 | Killed Fang, Farmer Maggot's dog
| 447492| 2900 | 31 | Killed Lokkak, the Ogre Chieftain
| 461576| 2900 | 32 | Killed Maedhros, Son of Feanor
| 468543| 3100 | 32 | Destroyed Uvatha the Horseman
| 474363| 3150 | 32 | Killed Ugluk, the Uruk
| 490286| 3300 | 33 | Killed Lorgan, Chief of the Easterlings
| 493591| 3350 | 33 | Killed Castamir the Usurper
| 494615| 3350 | 33 | Killed Khim, Son of Mim
| 496144| 3350 | 33 | Found The Scimitar 'Haradekket'
| 498690| 3400 | 33 | Killed Kavlax the Many-Headed
| 511064| 3600 | 33 | Killed Smaug the Golden
| 522425| 3900 | 33 | Killed Shagrat, the Orc Captain
| 522677| 3900 | 33 | Killed Bullroarer the Hobbit
| 525180| 3950 | 33 | Left the level without entering the Greater
vault
| continued... | | ("Roundabout Two")
| 525933| 3950 | 33 | Destroyed Adunaphel the Quiet
| 527435| 3950 | 34 | Destroyed Draebor, the Imp
| 528288| 4050 | 34 | Killed Medusa, the Gorgon
| 531530| 4150 | 34 | Left the level without entering the Greater
vault
| continued... | | ("The Bank From Hell")
| 536233| 4150 | 34 | Found The Amulet of Ingwe
| 536551| 4150 | 34 | Found The Ring of Barahir
| 536554| 4150 | 34 | Found The Palantir of Westernesse
| 541476| 4150 | 35 | Reached level 35
| 544758| 4150 | 35 | Killed Itangast the Fire Drake
| 545735| 4150 | 35 | Found The Small Metal Shield of Thorin
| 555143| 4150 | 36 | Found The Pair of Metal Shod Boots 'Bastir'
| 555722| 4150 | 36 | Found The Metal Brigandine Armour of the
Rohirrim
| 557563| 4150 | 36 | Found The Adamantite Plate Mail 'Soulkeeper'
| 559462| 4150 | 37 | Killed Ar-Pharazon the Golden
| 575210| 4350 | 38 | Found The Metal Cap of Thengel
| 575210| 4350 | 38 | Found The Halberd 'Osondir'
| 575238| 4350 | 38 | Found The Set of Cesti of Fingolfin
| 583816| 4350 | 39 | Found The Rapier 'Forasgil'
| 587423| 4350 | 39 | Killed Evil Iggy
| 587576| 4350 | 39 | Found The Steel Helm of Hammerhand
| 591353| 4350 | 39 | Killed Huan, Wolfhound of the Valar
| 593105| 4350 | 39 | Found The Heavy Crossbow 'Cubragol'
| 596314| 4350 | 40 | Found The Well-balanced Spear 'Nimloth'
| 601843| 4300 | 40 | Found The Light Crossbow of Umbar
| 605520| 4300 | 40 | Found The Morning Star 'Firestar'
| 605932| 4300 | 40 | Killed Rogrog the Black Troll
| 609686| 4350 | 40 | Killed Saruman of Many Colours
| 609849| 4350 | 40 | Found The Lead-Filled Mace 'Suluian'
| 609849| 4350 | 40 | Found The Great Axe of Eonwe
| 609849| 4350 | 40 | Found The Whip of Gothmog
| 609849| 4350 | 40 | Found The Full Plate Armour of Isildur
| 618616| 4350 | 41 | Found The Ring of Power 'Nenya'
============================================================




[NPPAngband 0.4.1 Character Dump]

Name Condoleeza Self RB CB EB Best
Sex Female Age 128 Str! 18/100 +1 +5 +8 18/24018/235
Race High-Elf Height 89 INT: 18/91 +3 -2 +4 18/141
Class Warrior Weight 177 WIS: 18/78 -1 -2 +2 18/68
Title Hero Status 32 DEX: 18/98 +3 +2 +8 18/228
HP 922/922 CON: 18/97 +1 +2 +15 18/277
SP 0/0 Level 41 CHR: 18/42 +5 -1 +2 18/102

GameTurn 622591 Armor [56,+125] Saving Throw Heroic
Cur Exp 2541752 Fight (+44,+38) Stealth Superb
Max Exp 2541752 Melee (+51,+58) Fighting Legendary
Adv Exp 458248 Shoot (+54,+14) Shooting Legendary
MaxDepth 4350 ft Blows 6/turn Disarming Superb
Gold 103990 Shots 1/turn Magic Device Superb
Burden 260 lbs Speed +17 Perception Poor
% Burden 86% Infra 70 ft Searching Poor

You are one of several children of a Telerin Ranger. You have
light grey eyes, straight black hair, and a fair complexion.




[Character Equipment Stat Modifiers, Sustains and Flags]

(+/-) + + +++++
|}=="~[()]]] |}=="~[()]]]
abcdefghijkl@ abcdefghijkl@
Str: ..2.....42... Str: .........s...
Int: ..2....2..... Int: ..s....s.....
Wis: ..2.......... Wis: ..s..........
Dex: ..2......24.. Dex: .........s...
Con: 5.2...2.42... Con: ......s..s...
Chr: ..2.......... Chr: ..s..........
abcdefghijkl@ abcdefghijkl@
Acid:....+.+.*.+.. Blind:..+........+.
Elec:....+........ Confu:......+......
Fire:....+......+. Sound:........+....
Cold:..*.+.+...... Shard:...........+.
Pois:............. Nexus:......+......
Fear:......+.+...+ Nethr:......+......
Lite:...........++ Chaos:......+.+..+.
Dark:......+....+. Disen:+............
abcdefghijkl@ abcdefghijkl@
S.Dig:............. Stea.:.....+.+...+.
Feath:..+.......... Sear.:.............
PLite:...........+. Infra:.............
Regen:..+.......... Aggr.:+............
Telep:..+....+..... Speed:.+++.........
Invis:..+.........+ Blows:.............
FrAct:..+.....++++. Shots:.............
HLife:..+...+...... Might:.............
abcdefghijkl@ abcdefghijkl@
|}=="~[()]]] |}=="~[()]]]

[Character Equipment]

a) The Bastard Sword 'Calris' (5d4) (+7,+20) (+5) {@w0}
It increases your constitution by 5. It slays trolls, demons,
and all evil creatures, and it is especially deadly against
dragons. It provides resistance to disenchantment. It
aggravates creatures around you. It cannot be harmed by the
elements. It gives you 6 attacks per turn.
b) The Heavy Crossbow 'Cubragol' (x4) (+10,+14) (+10) {Chest, 4350'}
It increases your speed by 10. It cannot be harmed by the
elements. It might have hidden powers.
c) The Ring of Power 'Nenya' (+8,+8) (+2)
It increases all your stats by 2. It increases your speed by
2. It provides immunity to cold. It provides resistance to
blindness and life draining. It sustains your intelligence,
wisdom, and charisma. It makes you fall like a feather and
speeds your regeneration. It grants you immunity to paralysis,
the power of telepathy, and the ability to see invisible
things. It activates for large frost ball (200) every 20+d20
turns. It cannot be harmed by the elements.
d) a Ring of Speed (+8)
It increases your speed by 8.
e) an Amulet of Resistance
It provides resistance to acid, lightning, fire, and cold.
It cannot be harmed by the elements.
f) a Brass Lantern of Stealth (with 11389 turns of light) (+3)
It increases your stealth by 3. It cannot be harmed by fire.

g) The Adamantite Plate Mail 'Soulkeeper' (-4) [40,+20] (+2)
It increases your constitution by 2. It provides resistance
to acid, cold, fear, dark, confusion, nexus, nether, chaos,
and life draining. It sustains your constitution. It
activates for heal (1000) every 444 turns. It cannot be
harmed by the elements.
h) a Cloak of the Magi [1,+8] (+2) {ESP}
It increases your intelligence by 2. It increases your
stealth by 2. It sustains your intelligence. It grants you
the power of telepathy. It cannot be harmed by acid.
i) The Small Metal Shield of Thorin [3,+25] (+4) {Floor, 4150'}
It increases your strength and constitution by 4. It
provides immunity to acid. It provides resistance to fear,
sound, and chaos. It grants you immunity to paralysis. It
cannot be harmed by the elements.
j) a Golden Crown of Might [0,+8] (+2) {@w1}
It increases your strength, dexterity, and constitution by 2.
It sustains your strength, dexterity, and constitution. It
grants you immunity to paralysis. It cannot be harmed by the
elements.
k) The Set of Cesti of Fingolfin (+10,+10) [5,+20] (+4) {Acquirement,
4350'}
It increases your dexterity by 4. It provides resistance to
acid. It grants you immunity to paralysis. It activates for
a magical arrow (150) every 30+d30 turns. It cannot be
harmed by the elements.
l) The Pair of Metal Shod Boots 'Bastir' [7,+29] (+1)
It increases your stealth by 1. It provides resistance to
fire, light, dark, blindness, shards, and chaos. It lights
the dungeon around you. It grants you immunity to paralysis.
It cannot be harmed by the elements.


[Character Inventory]

a) a Potion of Healing {!*}
b) 9 Scrolls of Teleport Level {!*}
c) 4 Rods of Perception {!!@z1}
It cannot be harmed by electricity.
d) 2 Rods of Recall {!!,!*}
It cannot be harmed by electricity.
e) 5 Rods of Illumination {@z3}
f) a Rod of Detection {@z8,!!}
It cannot be harmed by electricity.
g) 4 Rods of Stone to Mud {@z6,!!}
h) 4 Rods of Teleport Other {!!,!*}
i) a Rod of Mass Identify {!!}
It cannot be harmed by electricity.
j) 6 Wands of Teleport Other (42 charges) {!*}
k) 3 Staffs of Speed (9 charges) {!*}
l) 4 Staffs of *Destruction* (8 charges) {!*}
m) a Ring of Slaying (+10,+13)
n) a Ring of Speed (+8)
It increases your speed by 8.
o) The Ring of Barahir (+1) {RPois,RDark}
It increases all your stats by 1. It increases your stealth
by 1. It provides resistance to poison and dark. It cannot
be harmed by the elements.
p) The Amulet of Carlammas (+2)
It increases your constitution by 2. It provides resistance
to fire. It activates for protection from evil every
225+d225 turns. It cannot be harmed by the elements.
q) The Metal Brigandine Armour of the Rohirrim [19,+15] (+2)
It increases your strength and dexterity by 2. It provides
resistance to acid, lightning, fire, cold, fear, confusion,
and sound. It cannot be harmed by the elements.
r) a Jewel Encrusted Crown of the Magi [0,+12] (+1)
It increases your intelligence by 1. It provides resistance
to acid, lightning, fire, and cold. It sustains your
intelligence. It speeds your regeneration. It cannot be
harmed by the elements.
s) The Scimitar 'Haradekket' (2d5) (+9,+11) (+2) {@w0}
It increases your dexterity by 2. It increases your attack
speed by 2. It slays animals, undead, and all evil creatures.
It grants you the ability to see invisible things. It cannot
be harmed by the elements. It gives you 8 attacks per turn.

t) The Great Axe of Eonwe (5d4) (+15,+18) [+8] (+2) (charging)
It increases all your stats by 2. It cannot be harmed by the
elements. It gives you 6 attacks per turn. It might have
hidden powers.
u) The Whip of Gothmog (6d3) (+13,+15) (-3)
It decreases your intelligence, wisdom, and dexterity by 3.
It slays animals, trolls, and giants, and it is especially
deadly against dragons. It is branded with fire. It
provides immunity to fire. It provides resistance to
lightning and dark. It lights the dungeon around you. It
aggravates creatures around you. It activates for large fire
ball (120) every 15 turns. It cannot be harmed by the
elements. It gives you 6 attacks per turn.
v) The Lead-Filled Mace 'Suluian' (3d4) (+3,+20) (+2)
It increases your constitution and charisma by 2. It is
branded with acid and electricity. It provides immunity to
cold. It provides resistance to acid, lightning, and poison.
It sustains your charisma. It lights the dungeon around you.
It cannot be harmed by the elements. It gives you 6 attacks
per turn.
w) 16 Mithril Bolts of Slay Demon (3d5) (+8,+12)
It slays demons. It cannot be harmed by acid or fire.

[Home Inventory Stat Modifiers, Sustains and Flags]

(+/-) ++ ++++
,!!!!?????___=~[)]]]]}}{ ,!!!!?????___=~[)]]]]}}{
abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwx abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwx
Str: ...................3.2.. Str: ........................
Int: ..............2...2.3... Int: ........................
Wis: ..............2...2..... Wis: ........................
Dex: ...................33... Dex: ........................
Con: ...............1...3.2.. Con: ........................
Chr: ........................ Chr: ........................
abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwx abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwx
Acid: ...............++....... Blind: ..............+...+.....
Elec: ...............++....... Confu: ...............+..+.....
Fire: ...............++....... Sound: ...............+........
Cold: ...............++....... Shard: ........................
Pois: ................+....... Nexus: ...............+........
Fear: ........................ Nethr: ........................
Lite: ........................ Chaos: ..............+.........
Dark: ........................ Disen: ........................
abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwx abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwx
S.Dig: ........................ Stea.: ................+...+...
Feath: ........................ Sear.: ..............+...+.....
PLite: ........................ Infra: ..............+.........
Regen: ........................ Aggr.: ........................
Telep: ..............+..+...... Speed: ........................
Invis: ..............+...+..... Blows: ........................
FrAct: ........................ Shots: ......................+.
HLife: ........................ Might: .....................+..
abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwx abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwx
,!!!!?????___=~[)]]]]}}{ ,!!!!?????___=~[)]]]]}}{

[Home Inventory]

a) 4 Mushrooms of Restoring {!*}
b) 9 Potions of Speed {!*}
c) 6 Potions of Healing {!*}
d) 3 Potions of *Healing* {!*}
e) 4 Potions of Life
f) 6 Scrolls of Teleportation {!*}
g) 19 Scrolls of Teleport Level {!*}
h) 4 Scrolls of *Destruction* {!*}
i) 3 Scrolls of Banishment {!*}
j) a Scroll of Mass Banishment {!*}
k) a Staff of Teleportation (7 charges) {!*}
l) 2 Staffs of Speed (4 charges) {!*}
m) 2 Staffs of *Destruction* (4 charges) {!*}
n) a Ring of Damage (+17)
o) The Palantir of Westernesse (+2)
It increases your intelligence and wisdom by 2. It increases
your searching and infravision by 2. It provides resistance
to blindness and chaos. It lights the dungeon around you.
It grants you the power of telepathy and the ability to see
invisible things, but it also drains experience. It
activates for clairvoyance every 50+d50 turns. It cannot be
harmed by the elements.
p) The Full Plate Armour of Isildur [25,+25] (+1)
It increases your constitution by 1. It provides resistance
to acid, lightning, fire, cold, confusion, sound, and nexus.
It cannot be harmed by the elements.
q) a Small Leather Shield of Elvenkind [2,+15] (+3 to stealth)
It increases your stealth by 3. It provides resistance to
acid, lightning, fire, cold, and poison. It cannot be harmed
by the elements.
r) an Iron Crown of Telepathy [0,+13]
It grants you the power of telepathy.
s) The Iron Helm 'Holhenneth' [5,+9] (+2) {!!,@w1}
It increases your intelligence and wisdom by 2. It increases
your searching by 2. It provides resistance to blindness and
confusion. It grants you the ability to see invisible things.
It activates for detection every 55+d55 turns. It cannot be
harmed by the elements.
t) The Steel Helm of Hammerhand [6,+20] (+3)
It increases your strength, dexterity, and constitution by 3.
It cannot be harmed by the elements. It might have hidden
powers.
u) The Pair of Soft Leather Boots of Avarri [2,+15] (+3)
It increases your intelligence and dexterity by 3. It
increases your stealth by 3. It activates for phase door
every 20 turns. It cannot be harmed by the elements.
v) The Light Crossbow of Umbar (x3) (+18,+18) (+2)
It increases your strength and constitution by 2. It
increases your shooting power by 2. It cannot be harmed by
the elements. It might have hidden powers.
w) a Light Crossbow of Extra Shots (x3) (+18,+14) (+1)
It increases your shooting speed by 1.
x) 40 Bolts of Slay Evil (1d5) (+12,+8) {25% off}
It slays all evil creatures.

Condoleeza the High-Elf Warrior
Began the quest to kill Morgoth on 01/15/2006 at 05:42 PM
============================================================
CHAR.
| TURN | DEPTH |LEVEL| EVENT
============================================================
| 8201| 150 | 5 | Reached level 5
| 18134| 150 | 7 | Quest: Killed 12 Green nagas
| 22519| 500 | 10 | Reached level 10
| 25836| 500 | 11 | Killed Grishnakh, the Hill Orc
| 29381| 500 | 12 | Killed Orfax, Son of Boldor
| 33289| 500 | 12 | Killed Grip, Farmer Maggot's dog
| 35484| 500 | 12 | Killed Lagduf, the Snaga
| 63212| 800 | 15 | Reached level 15
| 67856| 800 | 14 | Killed Wolf, Farmer Maggot's dog
| 77278| 900 | 15 | Killed Ulfast, Son of Ulfang
| 78556| Town | 17 | Killed Lotho Pimple
| 87442| 950 | 17 | Killed Boldor, King of the Yeeks
| 91747| 1050 | 18 | Killed Brodda, the Easterling
| 123838| 1150 | 20 | Reached level 20
| 192710| 1800 | 25 | Reached level 25
| 204928| 2000 | 25 | Killed Ulwarth, Son of Ulfang
| 216702| 2050 | 24 | Killed Uldor the Accursed
| 222942| 2050 | 25 | Killed Maglor, Son of Feanor
| 263425| 2150 | 26 | Killed Gorbag, the Orc Captain
| 323051| 2350 | 29 | Killed Ufthak of Cirith Ungol
| 332749| 2450 | 29 | Found The Phial of Galadriel
| 338142| 2450 | 30 | Reached level 30
| 355143| 2500 | 30 | Killed Golfimbul, the Hill Orc Chief
| 356763| 2500 | 31 | Destroyed Akhorahil the Blind
| 356790| 2500 | 31 | Found The Amulet of Carlammas
| 357869| 2500 | 31 | Found The Jewel 'Evenstar'
| 383884| 2650 | 31 | Killed Beorn, the Shape-Changer
| 397964| 2750 | 31 | Killed Wormtongue, Agent of Saruman
| 397994| 2750 | 31 | Found The Pair of Soft Leather Boots of
Avarri
| 402699| 2750 | 31 | Destroyed Ren the Unclean
| 404949| 2750 | 31 | Found The Large Metal Shield of Anarion
| 405129| 2750 | 31 | Found The Bastard Sword 'Calris'
| 407784| 2750 | 31 | Found The Star of Elendil
| 438529| 2850 | 31 | Killed Smeagol
| 438624| 2850 | 31 | Found The Iron Helm 'Holhenneth'
| 438873| 2850 | 31 | Killed Azog, King of the Uruk-Hai
| 440588| 2850 | 31 | Killed Fang, Farmer Maggot's dog
| 447492| 2900 | 31 | Killed Lokkak, the Ogre Chieftain
| 461576| 2900 | 32 | Killed Maedhros, Son of Feanor
| 468543| 3100 | 32 | Destroyed Uvatha the Horseman
| 474363| 3150 | 32 | Killed Ugluk, the Uruk
| 490286| 3300 | 33 | Killed Lorgan, Chief of the Easterlings
| 493591| 3350 | 33 | Killed Castamir the Usurper
| 494615| 3350 | 33 | Killed Khim, Son of Mim
| 496144| 3350 | 33 | Found The Scimitar 'Haradekket'
| 498690| 3400 | 33 | Killed Kavlax the Many-Headed
| 511064| 3600 | 33 | Killed Smaug the Golden
| 522425| 3900 | 33 | Killed Shagrat, the Orc Captain
| 522677| 3900 | 33 | Killed Bullroarer the Hobbit
| 525180| 3950 | 33 | Left the level without entering the Greater
vault
| continued... | | ("Roundabout Two")
| 525933| 3950 | 33 | Destroyed Adunaphel the Quiet
| 527435| 3950 | 34 | Destroyed Draebor, the Imp
| 528288| 4050 | 34 | Killed Medusa, the Gorgon
| 531530| 4150 | 34 | Left the level without entering the Greater
vault
| continued... | | ("The Bank From Hell")
| 536233| 4150 | 34 | Found The Amulet of Ingwe
| 536551| 4150 | 34 | Found The Ring of Barahir
| 536554| 4150 | 34 | Found The Palantir of Westernesse
| 541476| 4150 | 35 | Reached level 35
| 544758| 4150 | 35 | Killed Itangast the Fire Drake
| 545735| 4150 | 35 | Found The Small Metal Shield of Thorin
| 555143| 4150 | 36 | Found The Pair of Metal Shod Boots 'Bastir'
| 555722| 4150 | 36 | Found The Metal Brigandine Armour of the
Rohirrim
| 557563| 4150 | 36 | Found The Adamantite Plate Mail 'Soulkeeper'
| 559462| 4150 | 37 | Killed Ar-Pharazon the Golden
| 575210| 4350 | 38 | Found The Metal Cap of Thengel
| 575210| 4350 | 38 | Found The Halberd 'Osondir'
| 575238| 4350 | 38 | Found The Set of Cesti of Fingolfin
| 583816| 4350 | 39 | Found The Rapier 'Forasgil'
| 587423| 4350 | 39 | Killed Evil Iggy
| 587576| 4350 | 39 | Found The Steel Helm of Hammerhand
| 591353| 4350 | 39 | Killed Huan, Wolfhound of the Valar
| 593105| 4350 | 39 | Found The Heavy Crossbow 'Cubragol'
| 596314| 4350 | 40 | Found The Well-balanced Spear 'Nimloth'
| 601843| 4300 | 40 | Found The Light Crossbow of Umbar
| 605520| 4300 | 40 | Found The Morning Star 'Firestar'
| 605932| 4300 | 40 | Killed Rogrog the Black Troll
| 609686| 4350 | 40 | Killed Saruman of Many Colours
| 609849| 4350 | 40 | Found The Lead-Filled Mace 'Suluian'
| 609849| 4350 | 40 | Found The Great Axe of Eonwe
| 609849| 4350 | 40 | Found The Whip of Gothmog
| 609849| 4350 | 40 | Found The Full Plate Armour of Isildur
| 618616| 4350 | 41 | Found The Ring of Power 'Nenya'
============================================================
Eddie Grove
2006-01-18 06:57:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by pete mack
n) a Ring of Speed (+8)
Only keep one ring of speed [inluding the one worn].
Post by pete mack
o) The Ring of Barahir (+1) {RPois,RDark}
Too underpowered for a precious ring slot.
Post by pete mack
p) The Amulet of Carlammas (+2)
This can go. If you really need it, Amulet of Dwarves will show up
eventually.
Post by pete mack
r) a Jewel Encrusted Crown of the Magi [0,+12] (+1)
It increases your intelligence by 1. It provides resistance
to acid, lightning, fire, and cold. It sustains your
intelligence. It speeds your regeneration. It cannot be
Useless extra power. If you really need space, you can count on
finding another eventually.
Post by pete mack
t) The Great Axe of Eonwe (5d4) (+15,+18) [+8] (+2) (charging)
v) The Lead-Filled Mace 'Suluian' (3d4) (+3,+20) (+2)
It increases your constitution and charisma by 2. It is
branded with acid and electricity. It provides immunity to
cold. It provides resistance to acid, lightning, and poison.
It sustains your charisma. It lights the dungeon around you.
It cannot be harmed by the elements. It gives you 6 attacks
per turn.
Suluian is pointless when you have Eonwe.

Hmm -- multiple dumps in one post?!?
Post by pete mack
n) a Ring of Damage (+17)
You have to wield Narya, just because, so only save one
damage/slaying.
Post by pete mack
u) The Pair of Soft Leather Boots of Avarri [2,+15] (+3)
It increases your intelligence and dexterity by 3. It
increases your stealth by 3. It activates for phase door
every 20 turns. It cannot be harmed by the elements.
That looks useless.
Post by pete mack
v) The Light Crossbow of Umbar (x3) (+18,+18) (+2)
It increases your strength and constitution by 2. It
increases your shooting power by 2. It cannot be harmed by
the elements. It might have hidden powers.
w) a Light Crossbow of Extra Shots (x3) (+18,+14) (+1)
It increases your shooting speed by 1.
You won't give up Cubragol for these.
pete mack
2006-01-18 08:16:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eddie Grove
Post by pete mack
n) a Ring of Speed (+8)
Yes. I'd been keeping it as a swap for fighting "exceedingly quick"
monsters, but Cubragol made it unnecessary.
Post by Eddie Grove
Only keep one ring of speed [inluding the one worn].
Post by pete mack
o) The Ring of Barahir (+1) {RPois,RDark}
Too underpowered for a precious ring slot.
It was a swap for RPois.
Post by Eddie Grove
v) The Lead-Filled Mace 'Suluian' (3d4) (+3,+20) (+2)
It increases your constitution and charisma by 2. It is
branded with acid and electricity. It provides immunity to
cold. It provides resistance to acid, lightning, and poison.
It sustains your charisma. It lights the dungeon around you.
It cannot be harmed by the elements. It gives you 6 attacks
per turn.
until I got exceedingly lucky and found Colluin--first artifact
cloak--then an Amulet of Trickery(+4).
I now have pretty much perfect equipment, though I would surely like
Elessar for a bit more damage and a better Speed ring than +8.

I've now got all resistances, two immunities, activations for healing,
double resist, and Mass Banishment ... about as good as you can ask
for, though disenchantment is an aggravating swap. Permanent speed is
+24; Soulkeeper+Palantir slows me to +22. I suppose it's worth it, now
that permanent speed is > +20, though I hate giving up stealth.

The small levels are getting ridiculous. If I get a diagonal vault,
there will be something like 10 uniques, the weakest being Dwar or
something. And I can't kill any of them, because I keep getting
interrupted... It's especially bad when I swap to Calris.

I had the Mouth down to 3 stars, but then all the other bastards
started swarming me under, and it was either run or die. I've turned
off autoscum, and started stair-scumming for levels bigger than 400'
across.
Timo Pietilä
2006-01-18 09:54:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by pete mack
Post by pete mack
I'm trying to win in < 1 M moves.
Back to the original topic. This is my 3rd or 4th attempt. I'm ready
to kill Sauron, but I don't have enough healing potions for Morgoth...
Sell everything you don't need and buy them from store services. Morgoth
isn't much harder than vanilla Morgoth, so you don't need too many of those.

Timo Pietilä
pete mack
2006-01-19 06:33:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by pete mack
Post by pete mack
I'm trying to win in < 1 M moves.
Back to the original topic. This is my 3rd or 4th attempt. I'm ready
to kill Sauron, but I don't have enough healing potions for Morgoth...
CL 46, 700K moves, killed by Morgoth with a Plasma Bolt. I had M down
to 2 or 3 stars, both for HP and SP.

I hadn't played NPP in a long time. Looking at my previous top
scores, I never even came close before this month, when I started
power-diving. Power-diving makes most of the game a lot easier, in
some ways easier than V, once you find a way around the Hydra Zone.


But there's insane risk in the last two uniques. I've died to each,
each time to plasma bolts. I wasn't paying sufficient attention the
first time. But the last game, Morgoth did something like 720 damage
in a single turn. I had no idea that was possible!

Another unpleasant surprise is that charges can drain from rods, not
just wands and staffs. Nasty! Next time, leave all rods but minimum at
home, carry empty wands of magic missile instead.

By the end of the game, no other uniques were presenting much trouble,
except Azathoth. (I killed a bunch of them, including all the top 15
except the Witch-King and Ancalagon.)


Does anyone have any clever tactics for fighting M? I was burning
through !Healing potions, and wasn't doing nearly enough damage.
(Elessar instead of Trickery, and Slaying/Damage instead of Ring of
Power would have helped.)


I'm getting sick of NPP for now. Unfortunately NPP "small levels"
spoils you for anything else. Such a drag, actually having to search
for stairs down.
Eddie Grove
2006-01-19 07:12:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by pete mack
Post by pete mack
Post by pete mack
I'm trying to win in < 1 M moves.
Back to the original topic. This is my 3rd or 4th attempt. I'm ready
to kill Sauron, but I don't have enough healing potions for Morgoth...
CL 46, 700K moves, killed by Morgoth with a Plasma Bolt. I had M down
to 2 or 3 stars, both for HP and SP.
Does anyone have any clever tactics for fighting M? I was burning
Get a higher CL for more hits and more hitpoints? :)


Eddie
Cliff Stamp
2006-01-19 17:13:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by pete mack
Does anyone have any clever tactics for fighting M?
He is much harder in melee, with missles he has the option of moving so you
deal with his offence less, plus missle damage is generally higher. In the
ones I ran, it wasn't uncommon to send several rounds of ammo into him while
he just moved. Thus your total damage per round of his damage (which is how
you would calculate resource drain) is easily five or more times higher than
in melee.
--
Cliff Stamp
***@physics.mun.ca http://www.physics.mun.ca:80/~sstamp/

The one unforgivable sin, the offence against one's own integrity,
is to accept anything at all simply on authority -- Maureen Johnson Long

Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm. -- Publilius Syrus
pete mack
2006-01-19 18:56:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cliff Stamp
Post by pete mack
Does anyone have any clever tactics for fighting M?
He is much harder in melee, with missles he has the option of moving so you
deal with his offence less, plus missle damage is generally higher. In the
ones I ran, it wasn't uncommon to send several rounds of ammo into him while
he just moved. Thus your total damage per round of his damage (which is how
you would calculate resource drain) is easily five or more times higher than
in melee.
I was using Cubragol, which isn't much as a shooter, and I only had 60
bolts of Slay Evil.
Next time, I keep that sling of Brandinde, the Longbow+shots, etc. By
the way, what is the max damage M can be expected to do in NPP? I can
no longer use my old rule of 550, especially now that he has an extra
max damage attack.


PS to Jeff:
Why did you nerf Umbar? It used to be an excellent shooter, especially
when you were short of ego ammo. No longer.
Timo Pietilä
2006-01-20 04:29:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by pete mack
the way, what is the max damage M can be expected to do in NPP? I can
no longer use my old rule of 550, especially now that he has an extra
max damage attack.
That rule doesn't work in vanilla either. Morgoth can do 600 points of
damage in one round (not likely, but can). Anyway, 550 is _average_
damage for manastorm, so you should have few points more to be sure.

Timo Pietilä
pete mack
2006-01-20 04:44:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Timo Pietilä
Post by pete mack
the way, what is the max damage M can be expected to do in NPP? I can
no longer use my old rule of 550, especially now that he has an extra
max damage attack.
That rule doesn't work in vanilla either. Morgoth can do 600 points of
damage in one round (not likely, but can). Anyway, 550 is _average_
damage for manastorm, so you should have few points more to be sure.
This is false in NPP.

I looked it up, and Morgoth does average damage of 600 with both Mana
Storm and Plasma Bolt, 400 with Mana Bolt. Sauron does a lot less
damage - avg 450, spell power 150.

/*{Mana_cost,dam_mult,dam_div,dam_var,best_range}*/
{5, 3, 1, 6, 6}, /* RF5_BOLT_PLAS */
{7, 3, 1, 8, 8}, /* RF5_BALL_MANA */
{5, 2, 1, 6, 6}, /* RF5_BOLT_MANA */


He seems to use Plasma Bolt the most. It does as much damage as mana
storm, but uses less mana.

I don't know how to interpret the variance to get a real feeling for
what a reasonable expectation of max damage is.
Twisted
2006-01-20 12:47:10 UTC
Permalink
Most vanilla monsters won't do more than 550 with a single magic
attack/breath (down from up to 600 with chaos attacks a while ago);
sauron and morgoth excepted, however. They can do about 600. Morgoth
can also make that kind of damage in melee -- sometimes more.

NPP has probably changed this to make them much nastier, of course.
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